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Old 01-17-2007, 07:16 AM   #71
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Default Excellent Counterpoint.

Great Counterpoint Fred. </br>[*] I hope folks take your point about the possibility of the requirement of catastrophic insurance seriously. Keep in mind the insurance industry and ligation lawyers almost killed off the general aviation (small airplane) market in the decades of the 80s and 90s.[*] I also hope motorcyclist as evidenced on this forum, don't keep pointing the finger at automobile drivers. i.e. telling legislators that they are the problem. Most state legislators are going to be unsympathetic to that line of thinking when car drivers have mandatory seat belt laws and some states don't have mandatory helmet laws.[*]

Motorcyclist in particular the AMA should be out in front on this issue... Let's get the low hanging fruit so we can lower insurance costs, save lives and preserve the priviledge to ride.

The AMA should lobby for this low hanging fruit</br>
[*]Require full face helmets in all states
[*]Establish National standards for proper motorcycle gear (helmets, pants, jackets, gloves and boots.) Require all riders to wear this gear
[*]All motorcycle buyers must have a valid endorsement
[*]Mandatory training for all motorcyclist every 6 years
[*]Mandatory riding test every 3 years
[*]AMA sponsored real world training beyond the MSF parking lot type.
[*]A tiered license system based on factors like bike weight, hp, and torque

If we do all this we can save our privilege to ride

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Old 01-17-2007, 07:23 AM   #72
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Default Re: Tiered Licensing - A Counterpoint

"Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety". That is a quote from a long time ago from a pretty smart guy (Ben Franklin). A law to require training in order to be licensed is a lot more acceptable to me than this tiered nonsense based on egine size that has no relationship to the problem. If someone doesn't know how to ride it doesn't make any difference how big their engine is. The will crash just as readily on a 125 as a 1200.
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Old 01-17-2007, 07:24 AM   #73
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Default Re: One other simple thing: Actually REQUIRE a liscence...

I've stated more than once that the m class should be a requirement to register a bike. Are you not reading all my post?
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Old 01-17-2007, 07:28 AM   #74
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Default Re: Tiered Licensing - A Counterpoint

Personally you are doing exactly the right thing BMWW. However, the principle of personal responsibility does not apply here because the kids can´t be held responsible for their parents. And, amazing as it sounds, there are worse parents than you. That´s why the govt. has to step in and say whooa, lets start the kid first with a smaller bike.

The US govt has 46 regulations about the quality of a hamburger. Whether this is excessive or not depends on whether you mind eating crap. So how important are the lives of the kids versus people eating rodent scrotums, its all in the eye of the beholder.

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Old 01-17-2007, 07:29 AM   #75
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Default Re: Tiered Licensing - A Counterpoint

Vespa 125, Matchless 250, Tigercub, red tank Yamaha Enduro, borrowed rides on any thing that presented itself, loooong layoff, Ducati ST4, in all reality probably not the bike to come back on but there it is. I had proven to myself that I wasn't all that fast a long time ago so I wasn't interested in proving anything to anyone. Tiered licensing would be a good thing especially if: 1 It applies to everyone on the road. 2 It mandates additional comprehensive training to a reasonably high standard. Otherwise I think it will wind up being another case of feel good lawmaking aimed at a" high vis" minority.
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Old 01-17-2007, 07:30 AM   #76

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Default Re: Excellent Counterpoint.

11 hours 58 minutes 20 seconds
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Old 01-17-2007, 07:33 AM   #77
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Default Drivers the issue

"I maintain that rigorous training/testing for Drivers will save more Motorcyclists than anything Motorcyclists can do."

AMEN! (That and at least getting a motorcycle license and not riding intoxicated)

Focusing on the gnat when there is a beam in your eye is my take on Tiered Licensing for motorcyclists. There is a killer on the road and Tiered Licensing for motorcyclists does not address it.

3,026 American forces have died in the Iraq war as of Jan. 17, 2007 (starting Mar. 19, 2003), so sez CNN.com. That is a period of 3 years and 10 months if my math is correct. NHTSA reports that there were 43,443 total "traffic crash victim" fatalities in 2005. Using 2005 statistics as an average the US would have lost (3026 fatalities per month x 46 months) 166,531 lives. That is approximately the entire city of Oceanside, CA wiped out at home during the period our troops were giving their all.

We lose more lives in under 4 weeks in US traffic than the total number of coalition forces killed in 46 months of the Iraq (3,278 according to CNN). Motorcyclists are over-represented at slightly over 10% of total 2005 fatalities but even an absolute ban on motorcycles would not reduce the loss of life by 10% (a big chunk of those fatalities were the "other" guy anyway) as the now ex-riders would use other means of transport and still have some fatalities. My point is simple there is a huge killer among us while we are quibbling over manufacturers selling murder-cycles to unqualified riders that are likely to injure or kill themselves because the insurance companies made it affordable for them to do so OR they did not care to even follow the law and get a license and/or insurance.

Lack of driving skills kills 55 times more people than war in the US. Whassup with that?!?

(Yes I know more people use the US roads than are fighting in Iraq but the traffic deaths are huge and Tiered Licensing for motorcyclists won't put a dent in the loss of life. It might be of value to focus where the most harm is done.)
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Old 01-17-2007, 07:34 AM   #78
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Default Re: Tiered Licensing - A Counterpoint

You know what? Things are never going to be perfect anyhow. Why does every supposed problem in the world have to be turned into an Act of Congress?
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Old 01-17-2007, 07:36 AM   #79
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Default Re: Tiered Licensing - A Counterpoint

I don't think it's illegal to scuba dive without certification.
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Old 01-17-2007, 07:37 AM   #80
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Default Re: Excellent Counterpoint.

Yes that is the time since you last kbashed. After some good sleep I decided this... I paid my subscription if Gabe, Pete, and Fonzie what me to get off MO.. I will. I have a lot respect for those guys and I don't want to hurt MO. What is hurting MO is your obsession along with a few other in the relentless kbashing. When 20% of the posts are your (plural) kbashing.
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