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Old 01-17-2007, 06:34 AM   #61
acecycleins
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Default Re: Tiered Licensing - A Counterpoint

Ditto- Fred, you're op-ed was great. I don't think you deserve ANY backlash on this. Your points were well formulated and presented. Thank you for your work.
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Old 01-17-2007, 06:37 AM   #62
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Default Re: Tiered Licensing - A Counterpoint

You would need to cite hard stats for an outrageous statement like this "one of the most popular bikes purchased by first-time buyers is the 800-lb. Honda Gold Wing". Never met a first time buyer on a 'Wing. I'm sure it happened, but "most popular...by first time buyers" - B.S.!!!!

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Old 01-17-2007, 06:38 AM   #63
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Default Re: Tiered Licensing - A Counterpoint

Both Gabe and Fred present their positions well. Fred's, with less gov involvement, is closer to mine. I see the "problem" as both obvious and dubious (time for an eye exam?). If either of these respected Motorcyclists were to be the ones implementing their plans I would find them far easier to accept. In fact, that I don't see Motorcyclists carrying out these plans is a large part of why I can't endorse them. Having some clue as to the how the "government" "works" and the caliber and loyalties of the "Experts" brought in to fix a "problem", at least historically, I cannot endorse a plan bringing them More into Motorcycling. I do not trust our Government on many levels.



Motorcyclists used to "self-police" with more experienced Riders managing the progression of less experienced Riders. I've seen guys refuse to sell motorcycles to Riders that appeared under qualified (not lately). This, in my opinion, was the best possible system but with many Riders coming into Motorcycling from the "outside" these days (a mixed blessing?) and many Dealers/individuals selling anything to anyone (no, I don't necessarily disagree with that but it may be a shortsighted approach for Dealers/Rider sellers) it would be/will be hard to continue to largely "self-police". I think that path would be in our best interests long and short term though. The relative dearth of what many Riders would consider good "beginner" bikes would seem to serve No One's interests. I continue to be surprised with the high levels of performance that many find acceptable in a "beginner bike".



I maintain that rigorous training/testing for Drivers will save more Motorcyclists than anything Motorcyclists can do.



I think it is a GREAT idea to try to hash this out amongst ourselves now in order to have a united or at a least a thought out response when the gov comes around doing what they do best... saying "Gimme!".



I can't think of a good solution of how to protect people from themselves (and I seem one of the few that wonders about the Constitutional and Civil Rights implications of even trying to) but if the gov is the "answer" I'm inclined to re-examine the question.
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Old 01-17-2007, 06:39 AM   #64
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Default Re: One other simple thing: Actually REQUIRE a liscence...

How about, you don't need a license to buy it, just to register it. Bet you're against that, too.
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Old 01-17-2007, 06:43 AM   #65
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Default Re: Tiered Licensing - A Counterpoint

I hear ya, I'm still confused as to why were so concerned in the first place. We all have to go, just a matter of how we go. Oh yeah, if your dead you cant pay taxes...
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Old 01-17-2007, 06:49 AM   #66
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Default Re: Tiered Licensing - A Counterpoint

Love those "Hate Crime" Laws. They were already laws then they passed new laws of the same law with a different name.
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Old 01-17-2007, 06:53 AM   #67
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Default Re: Tiered Licensing - A Counterpoint

You just didn't know about the 'Love crime' laws out, now did ya?
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Old 01-17-2007, 06:56 AM   #68
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Default So, in other words...

Your business is quite happy selling a product to people who have no business buying it, then?



And who it is arguably dangerous and they are definatly unqualified to use?



Simply because a few of your customers actually do have enoguh sense to trailer a bike home or for a spouse? Yeah, probably 1 customer for every 10+ stupid squids sans liscence driving a GSX-R off the lot.



Gee, sounds like a Tobacco company excuse to me.

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Old 01-17-2007, 07:11 AM   #69
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Default Re: Tiered Licensing - A Counterpoint

I started on a Nighthawk 700s that I bought from the instructor after the MSF course. two months later I bought the sportster.
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Old 01-17-2007, 07:12 AM   #70
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Default Re: Tiered Licensing - A Counterpoint

Here I sit with the flu, sucking on a Robitussin cough drop, when I come across your post. It's bad enough trying to breath through all this congestion but inhaling a cough drip hurts. Uni-brow indeed! And what else might be in need of a good shave? From one old-timer to another, attaboy! At least we've proven that we can survive long enough to be old.



What he says, Mr. Anrajala!



What did he say anyway?



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