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Old 01-17-2007, 10:02 AM   #101
Aerostat
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Default Re: Tiered Licensing - A Counterpoint

Spot on! The average teenage wannabe rider thinks that he is invulnerable, accidents only happen to other people and naturally he can handle a GSXR1000. After all he thinks, he got a great score on his computer racing game the other day so that proves that he is a great rider, doesn't it? A powerful bike (even a 600, never mind a literbike) gets up to high speed quicker that an inexperienced newbie can think, and cruises so easily that he may not realise how fast he is going. That's why experience is needed, and the only way of getting it is if there is a mechanism in place that forces him to get it on a lower powered bike than the 180mph rocketship that he dreams about. There will always be the asshat who doesn't have the intelligence to realise that the rules are there for a good reason, but a well thought out tiered licencing system will save lives, reduce insurance premiums and result in more bikes on the road, with the added political clout that this entails.
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Old 01-17-2007, 10:08 AM   #102
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Default Re: Excellent Counterpoint.

Oh well. The one bright spot is that if anything would make one question Fred Rau's argument it would be having a complete idiot taking up his cause and "helping" him spread the word.
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Old 01-17-2007, 10:16 AM   #103
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Default Re: Excellent Counterpoint.

But where does it end, Ace? Im for mandatory training and tougher testing, but am against tiered licensing(although i sometimes waver). But you can see from KPAUL's post above that it wont stop there....the next steps are mandatory full face helmets,no bike sales without license,periodic testing,etc. And when "they" get all that,they go after bike design and horsepower limits. How do we make "them" stop where "we" think they should. I hate to be one of those "slippery slope" guys, but its pertinent. Start asking government for help by passing laws we think are prudent and it'll be hard to keep them from keep going till we're legislated out of existence. Mandatory training is reasonable and in line with many states that have mandatory driver's ed and training for pilots. Tougher testing isnt asking for new laws.....in fact we could lobby for tougher testing for car AND motorcycle licenses. But when we start asking fotr tiered licensing we're asking for laws especially for us ( admitting that we are a special problem)and we may legitimize government going farther than we want. Not disagreeing with you completely, just a slightly different take.
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Old 01-17-2007, 10:17 AM   #104
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Default Re: Excellent Counterpoint.

I agree to Kpauls 7 points partly:



1. Agree 50%. Any certified helmet should do. Face looking like a mozzarella pizza after a shotgun blast? You should have thought about it earlier and get the hell out of the hospital Sir.



2. Agree 20%. Only helmets should have a standards. If someone loses like toes, who cares?



3. Disagree. Right of property ownership is sacrosanct.



4. Replaced by point 7.



5. Replaced by point 7.



6. Agree.



7. Agree. License system based on real world strict riding test, done at every step, replacing points 4. and 5.



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Old 01-17-2007, 10:24 AM   #105
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Default Re: Excellent Counterpoint.

That has been my argument the entire time. It won't stop. All it takes is one death for people to demand more restrictions.
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Old 01-17-2007, 10:29 AM   #106
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Default Re: Tiered Licensing - A Counter Counterpoint

Also, apart from the speed factor, it is far easier to control a light bike than the big bike. I am amazed by the common denial of this fact on this thread. Experienced riders can emulate this by taking a bike to an ice track. With a 100 kg 125 cc bike you can slice around nicely but when the Fat Boy starts to keel over don´t leave that leg under if you are a keen square dancer.



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Old 01-17-2007, 10:33 AM   #107
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Default Re: Excellent Counterpoint.

Thanks anrajala ..On #3, I think acecycleins has a better solution. He says "Requiring M class upon registration" I agree with you "Right of property ownership is sacrosanct:" Good catch Thanks
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Old 01-17-2007, 10:35 AM   #108
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Default Re: One other simple thing: Actually REQUIRE a liscence...

Do I read all of your posts? Of course not.
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Old 01-17-2007, 10:41 AM   #109
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Default Re: Excellent Counterpoint.

What is this fascination with more laws all the time? It is required by law for all drivers and riders to have liability insurance. Yet by insurance industry estimates as many as 15-20% of all drivers don't have any insurance at all. They buy a policy, register the car and then drop the policy. Where is the efficacy of this law that is so firmly enshrined in the pantheon of divine belief? It is a chimera.



This blind belief in more laws is quite similar to a religious superstition.
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Old 01-17-2007, 10:43 AM   #110
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Default Re: Tiered Licensing - A Counterpoint

I learned to scuba dive by jumping overboard with a tank under my arm. But I took the MSF course and as a basic introduction it was great. At least 30% of the class failed - and I was relieved they did.
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