Go Back   Motorcycle Forum > Motorcycle.Com General Discussion > Motorcycle News > Old News > MO Reader Feedback

View Poll Results: Is Gabe Right or Wrong?
Wrong! 10 4.90%
Right! 18 8.82%
I'm too weaselly to say! 2 0.98%
174 85.29%
Voters: 204. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-04-2007, 11:02 AM   #1
RonXX
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 273
Default Re: Tiers of a Clown: Gabe Responds to ''Power to Wait'' Feedback

PLEASE fix this: "Column by Gabe Ets-Hokin, January, 2006" or my brain is going to bleed the next time I see it.
RonXX is offline   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links Remove Advertisements
Motorcycle Forum
Advertisement
Old 01-04-2007, 11:04 AM   #2
ksquid
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: My new favorite site is CycleWorld.com
Posts: 3,775
Default Let me try this again

[*]Point 1. You kind of changed the rules in the middle of the game like my daughters do to me when playing monopoly.. " Tiered licensing without any kind of meaningful rider education would have a minimal effect on rider safety in the United States." That's a big change there Gabester.
[*]Point 2 what data are you and Schizuki looking at to say "After we've compiled reports of all motorcycle accidents in 2006, and culled out the ones in which (1) a cager was at fault, (2) the rider was drinking, (3) the rider was unlicensed, and (4) the rider was riding a small-displacement bike, how many remain that could conceivably be blamed on a sober, licensed rider riding a bike that was too much for him? Because until we have that number, we've got nothing to talk about." When I read the WA state report again (look at the conclusions again and all of the charts) and look at other studies. I don't reach the same conclusions My B.S. meter is starting to flash Please site your data or is this fictitious/hypothetical study that just happens to match your opinion. some us aren't as clever as you two to get it.
[*] There is data to compare the effectiveness of tiered licensing programs just not in the U.S.
[*] Basically your opinion is that tiered licensing has marginal effects at best even with proper training.. Again I think you are ignoring the law of physics, the data in countries such as the U.K. and Australia.and of course common sense. The data is out there you just haven't seen it compiled yet.
ksquid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2007, 11:14 AM   #3
BrowningBAR
Snuggles

 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: In a really, really, really old farmhouse
Posts: 4,369
Default Re: Tiers of a Clown: Gabe Responds to ''Power to Wait'' Feedback

I agree. Less government involvement is always a good thing.



Oh, and the UK just labeled cheese as a Junk Food. Bravo, idiots (the government, not the population).

BrowningBAR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2007, 11:15 AM   #4
acecycleins
Founding Member
 
acecycleins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: North Georgia
Posts: 4,129
Default Re: Tiers of a Clown: Gabe Responds to ''Power to Wait'' Feedback

Hope I'm not first-

Here's how the tier system should work:

1- Increase (through public and private) training programs

2- make the rider's test harder than the lame parking lot test that are currently used in most states

3- restrict the cc size base on how the individial scored on the training program and the rider's test- 500 cc max for anyone for the first 6 months and likewise restricting the power output of said motorcycle

4- issue "newbie" tags for those riders with the ability to trade out of the tag at no or little cost when you have completed the first 6 months

5- allow experienced riders (those with at least 5 years of riding history and no at fault accidents for those 5 years) to volunteer (with proper state training) to give on road riding test for those that have performed well enough in the theory or written test and the training courses to try for exempt status on the 500 cc rule- there will be a need for communication devices like in England for this to work/ newbie tag still applies



there are other ideas on this swirling around but those goals can be accomplished without creating great strain because private industry will make up for anything the gov't can't afford to do.



like I said before- if you try this and the insurance industry backs it there will be a stablization in premiums and better riders on the road.



you're investing in your safety.



btw, I'd charge a uniformed (country wide) mc licesing fee that is at a minimum $100 for a 10 year m/c licese. that will keep the posers out. get busted without a bike license and do 2 weeks and $500 fine manditory for your stupidity.



Gabe- I completely understand where you are coming from. Problem is that there is no way to find an actual study on such things because it doesn't exsist, yet.
__________________
"Slack" - a state of being in which everything flows smoothly.....a frame of mind so at ease that the universe naturally cooperates.
acecycleins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2007, 11:21 AM   #5
ksquid
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: My new favorite site is CycleWorld.com
Posts: 3,775
Default Re: Tiers of a Clown: Gabe Responds to ''Power to Wait'' Feedback

"Less government involvement is always a good thing" You must of slept through the discussions about Sherman Antitrust Act, The Meat Inspection Act of 1906, Enron, etc. in civics class...



Note to U.K. readers keep in mind the U.S. is facing an educational crisis which has led to declining test scores and the election of certain politicians.
ksquid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2007, 11:24 AM   #6
The_AirHawk
Founding Member
 
The_AirHawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Leanin' Tower O' P-P-P-P-POWAAAAAAAAA!!!!
Posts: 11,491
Default Re: Let me try this again

Point 2 what data are you and Schizuki looking at to say "After we've compiled reports of all motorcycle accidents in 2006, and culled out the ones in which.................



I believe that WAS the point, KPaul. The fact that nobody has YET done so; and if they did indeed collate the data, the results would show such a small number of affected individuals as to be absolutely not even worth the time to "Legislate Out" said behaviour.



__________________
Parfois, on fait pas semblant
Sometimes, it's not pretend
Oderint Dum Metuant
Let them hate so long as they fear
политики предпочитают безоружных крестьян
Politicians Prefer Unarmed Peasants
Nothing to see here, Citizen. Move along now...
The_AirHawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2007, 11:25 AM   #7
acecycleins
Founding Member
 
acecycleins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: North Georgia
Posts: 4,129
Default Re: Tiers of a Clown: Gabe Responds to ''Power to Wait'' Feedback

God bless the Queen-



Public education- bad

Private education- not as bad



either way we loose.
__________________
"Slack" - a state of being in which everything flows smoothly.....a frame of mind so at ease that the universe naturally cooperates.
acecycleins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2007, 11:26 AM   #8
The_AirHawk
Founding Member
 
The_AirHawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Leanin' Tower O' P-P-P-P-POWAAAAAAAAA!!!!
Posts: 11,491
Default Re: Tiers of a Clown: Gabe Responds to ''Power to Wait'' Feedback

Well, the Dems *DID* just "come into power".
__________________
Parfois, on fait pas semblant
Sometimes, it's not pretend
Oderint Dum Metuant
Let them hate so long as they fear
политики предпочитают безоружных крестьян
Politicians Prefer Unarmed Peasants
Nothing to see here, Citizen. Move along now...
The_AirHawk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2007, 11:28 AM   #9
acecycleins
Founding Member
 
acecycleins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: North Georgia
Posts: 4,129
Default Re: Tiers of a Clown: Gabe Responds to ''Power to Wait'' Feedback

look- i misspelled license twice in the same sentence- gov't educated- yes
__________________
"Slack" - a state of being in which everything flows smoothly.....a frame of mind so at ease that the universe naturally cooperates.
acecycleins is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2007, 11:31 AM   #10
HelterSkelter
Founding Member
 
HelterSkelter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 320
Default Re: Tiers of a Clown: Gabe Responds to ''Power to Wait'' Feedback

I'm just wondering when the insurance companies are going to start coming down on 8000lb SUV driving compulsive cell phone users?



I think that many Insurance company decisions are based on political correctness and what is visible in the eyes of Joe Q. Public. I presume you saw the local Fox News "expose" on crazy bikers in N.GA, however I'm still waiting for the "Inattentive, SUV driving soccer mom" piece.



I get your point but it is not fair that the onus of responsibility is always placed squarely on the shoulders of us riders, any comments?
HelterSkelter is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off