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View Poll Results: Is Gabe Right or Wrong?
Wrong! 10 4.90%
Right! 18 8.82%
I'm too weaselly to say! 2 0.98%
174 85.29%
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Old 01-06-2007, 08:14 AM   #81
The_AirHawk
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Default Re: Government education fails, or does it

The USA is built already - now it's the Politicians Job to Tear it Down.............
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Old 01-06-2007, 08:25 AM   #82
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Default Re: Is there a lack of data?

Suicide-laws are the only ones to punish people if they FAIL to break them.............
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Politicians Prefer Unarmed Peasants
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Old 01-06-2007, 08:46 AM   #83
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Default Re: Tiers of a Clown: Gabe Responds to ''Power to Wait'' Feedback

I notice that I didn't specify in my post - but the accidents to which I was referring were "cage only" - no Motos involved ('cept the one I was astraddle as witness).



One is FAR more likely to kill others with a large auto or SUV than ever with a Moto.



However, there is ONE crash I'd nearly forgotten about: I have a friend that related his story to me maybe 10 years ago of how he'd accidentally killed 3 people the year I was born, with his bike (an old Triumph).



The car had pulled-out in front of him, so he "Laid 'er Down" (here we go AGAIN), and whilst he was tumbling into the ditch, the bike slid underneath it, caught fire, and summarily exploded; nobody inside had a chance to escape.



That is the ONE incidence of a rider killing the occupant(s) of an auto that I've heard about from any person involved.



To this day, Dan will not ride. And it still causes him severe anguish to remember it.
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Sometimes, it's not pretend
Oderint Dum Metuant
Let them hate so long as they fear
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Politicians Prefer Unarmed Peasants
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Old 01-07-2007, 08:46 PM   #84
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Default Re: Tiers of a Clown: Gabe Responds to ''Power to Wait'' Feedback

I'm fascinated by this discussion and am impressed by the brainpower on this board. Up front, I disagree with Gabe. Graduated licenses may save some lives. A bigger, more powerful bike is more difficult to control. I remember the first time I rode a bike--It was a little Kawi 250 dirt bike a friend of mine got for a song. We were 16 riding on his family's dirt roads. I drove a stick shift car, so I thought it would be pretty simple. The bike scared the bejeezus out of me--I got on, twisted the throttle, slipped the clutch, and it popped up in the air. Like a complete amateur scared witless, I twisted the throttle harder I was so scared and almost lost the bike. I regained my senses, released the throttle, and the bike dropped to the ground and it was OK. Under pressure, training does matter, it's true. There are only two types of operators: trained and untrained (quoting Denzel from Man On Fire, unabashedly). I am a car afficianado as well, like a lot of us. I was always puzzled by people *****ing about BMWs and other sporting German autos not having cupholders back in the 80's and 90's. The Germans never put them in because you shouldn't be slurping your stupid coffee while operating a driving machine. Period. They eventually gave in and put cupholders in, but I thought the philosophical point was lost. In Germany, becoming a licensed driver is expensive and rigorous. They are serious about operation of machines. I agree about training. I would love to see the US go to a much more rigorous system of training for cyclists and cagers. I don't think it will happen. As others have pointed out, people see driving as a birthright here (even though it damned sure ain't). But restricting displacement would be a great start. I started on a Nighthawk 750 and that was more than enough. I can't imagine starting on some crotch rocket and surviving.



Someone mentioned the motorcycle endorsement thing. It's on my Illinois license, too, but cops don't seem to look very hard. I wonder if I would get cited it I didn't have the endorsement. I hope I would, but I don't know. I think there should be restrictions on weight and displacement. I have seen too many older farts living their dreams only to buy a 800-lb. Harley and drop it on their legs at the gas station. As with flying, experience counts. Training does, too, but we have to be pragmatic. I think it is rather fallacious to say that graduating licensing would NOT help. You just don't know that.



Someone pointed out the EX500 versus other bike distinction and someone said that 76 horsepower is just like 52. My foot, it's not. Graduated licensing would not eliminate accidents of the kind discussed, but having a powerful, difficult to control bike underneath you diminishes your capacity to act correctly under pressure, and makes it more likely it will get out of hand when you revert to your untrained (sigh) fight or flight response. It's a lot harder to screw up on Rebel 250.
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Old 01-11-2007, 12:43 PM   #85
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Default Re: Tiers of a Clown: Gabe Responds to ''Power to Wait'' Feedback

An interesting note about endorsements:



I've been pulled over about...7 times in the last 3 years, but none in the last year. Out of those, 3 times i was riding with only my MC endorsement. 2 of those times were on the freeway. Both times, the officers asked for my licence, i volunteered my trainers permit for the bike, they looked over it, apparently missing or not giving a ***** about the part about "Not being able to ride on a freeway, at night, or with a passenger", in it's own seperate paragraph in the middle. The 3rd time, the cop didn't even actually really stop me, he just told me to "slow down". (I was gunning it away from stop signs, but not exceeding the speed limit, oh the joys of a 250).



The other 4 times i've been pulled over, 2 out of 3 of those i was asked if i had my motorcycle licence, i produced my drivers licence, and they didn't know where to look...i was left pointing out the M1 endorsement. The 3rd time the cop actually knew where it was, saw it, warned me, and let me go. The final time was when i was pulled over by a bike cop for lane splitting, he immediately checked my licence, insurance, and registration, and when all 3 were in order basically just let me go.



So. About 80% of the cops on the road (adding my total to those of my friends who have been pulled over) have no f'ing clue what a trainer's permit is, what a licence is, what the restrictions are on either, and probably don't give a *****...tiered licencing is a long, long way off.
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