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Old 01-03-2007, 07:24 PM   #51
fstm
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Default Re: Power to Wait

Although I can appreciate people feeling passionate about the issues they write about, Gabe seems to be bent on substituting passion for reason. Any writer who drags in the "people hitting their heads in the shower" comparison is clearly not working too hard to be original. Comparing the crash of an F-117 to that of an ultralight is more flawed than informative if the drama of the explosion is all he believes will be different. With a stall speed for some ultralights below the speed that many of us can run, the chance that a pilot can survive a crash is actually there...if he/she has a chance to glide in. With an F-117 just lube up the ejection seat, because nothing recognizable will survive the impact.

Let's keep it simple and relatively logical. There are multiple causes for the accidents that create the statistics we study and bend to our own purposes. Drinking is definitely a big problem in most types of motor vehicle accident stats, but let's not use that to smoke screen other elements that also contribute to the problem. Speed, power, inexperience, and immaturity (not age) all contribute to fatalities. If we reduce some of the dangerous factors we can actually control, perhaps we will have more motorcyclists enjoying the sport over a long life. My first motorcycle was a Yamaha 250 twin. My second was a 1969 Kawasaki Mach III. Somehow I survived that second bike, although when I reflect back on those times, I'm not sure how. The first bike did not put me in the same kind of danger at any point (even though I was less experienced) because it was a far more benign mount. I'm all for fast, capable motorcycles (I currently ride a Honda Blackbird) but keep the hormone charged pimple-squeezers away from the serious sport bikes initially. A little training and a little experience go a long way toward reducing their chance of testing the capability of their helmets. Tiered licensing? I'm all for it!
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Old 01-03-2007, 07:25 PM   #52
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Default Re: Power to Wait

When it comes to safety all consumers are not alike so I'm OK with limiting the choices of beginner riders. In Europe and the UK they have MORE choices of bikes then we do partly because the number of riders who need smaller bikes creates a market - and they have more 4 stroke engines not just 2 strokers. If motojournalists would stop treating road tests like wheelie and speed contests maybe such illegal behaviors wouldn't seem like the holy grail of motorcycles for the newbies. I agree that car drivers need more stringent training too and they need to get off their g***m cellphones.
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Old 01-03-2007, 07:41 PM   #53
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Default Re: I'm the perfect motorcyclist!

And Hell's Comin' With Me!!
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Bill Clinton and Chuck Schumer are praising the Supreme Court for overturning an anti-gay-marriage law that they both signed.
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Old 01-03-2007, 07:42 PM   #54
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Default Re: The Horror!

You are correct That is exactly why the WA state tiered system was eliminated..
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Old 01-03-2007, 07:53 PM   #55
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Default Re: Power to Wait

Don't be a bad influence on your friends. Ride so you can ride together again tomorrow and again in twenty years. I am 54 and I am still riding. I bought a ZX14 last summer and I 4500 miles on it. It is the best handling bike I have ever owned. But it has the teeth to bite.

"Ride like your life depends on it." Should be the motto because it's true.

Steve

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Old 01-03-2007, 08:14 PM   #56
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Default Re: Power to Wait

The study is essentially worthless. Nothing is normalized. It says motorcycle fatalities are up. But are fatalities per mile up? Are fatalities per rider up? Everyone says more rider training is the answer - but the report shows the number of people taking training has doubled over the last five years, so...?



If motocyclist are getting killed because of their errors it's none of the governments business. It they're killing *other* people, like SUV drivers do, then it's time for action. Like tiered licenses: you can't drive anything who's weight in pounds in more than 100 times your years of experience.

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Old 01-03-2007, 08:21 PM   #57
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Default Re: Power to Wait

I don't think it matters if there are tiered licensing or not.



The insurance companies are dictating who rides what. They will decide when the party is over.

With the price of most modern motorcycles. A 19 year old kid has probably financed his shinny new R1. Well to get financing he had to insure it (most states require it any how). The insurance on an r1 for someone so young would be astronomical. This is where the limiting factor is.



Another way to look at it is, look what happened to the muscle car era of the 60's. Every guy wanted (no, needed) a hot car. Well at first insurance was cheap on these low buck, high hp cars. Then the accidents started costing the insurance companies $. People say it was the fuel crisis, and the emission regulations that kill the muscle car. Forget that... It was the insurance companies.
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Old 01-03-2007, 08:24 PM   #58
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Default Re: Power to Wait

After we've compiled reports of all motorcycle accidents in 2006, and culled out the ones in which (1) a cager was at fault, (2) the rider was drinking, (3) the rider was unlicensed, and (4) the rider was riding a small-displacement bike, how many remain that could conceivably be blamed on a sober, licensed rider riding a bike that was too much for him? Because until we have that number, we've got nothing to talk about.
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Old 01-03-2007, 08:47 PM   #59
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Default Re: Power to Wait

Why not an either/or proposition? Either you get safety training before you register your motorcycle, or you have to do tiered licensing. Give the rider a choice. If he wants to start out with a literbike, safety training required.



I agree with some (above) that stated that safety courses should include some on-the-road content. I don't know if a course of this magnitude is "doable" on a national scale, but Larry Grodsky's training course ( http://stayinsafe.com/ ) is a on-road training course that surely is more applicable to real-world riding than the parking lot drills in the current MSF course
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Old 01-03-2007, 08:52 PM   #60
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Default I don't care at all.

You see, Vlad, I want to collect Social Security as long as possible, so I need to make sure I kill as many people my age or younger. That's the realreason I'm opposed to tiered licensing. Put 'em all on GSXR-1000s and watch them crash and burn! Ha ha!



Why oh why don't the authorities listen to the giving and caring old wizards in internet chat rooms who KNOW the real answers? We will end poverty, hunger, injustice and chapped lips forever. Instead, they persue their selfish agendas, not listening to those who use "common sense" to discern the real answers. Hey, slavery was common sense, the Inquisition was common sense, and just ask David Duke; the holocaust was common sense as well.



"I think we should enact laws that prevent teenagers from riding bikes with over 50 horsepower or cars with over 100 horsepower."

By the way, a 50hp bike has a power-to-weight ratio equal to a 400hp car.



Here's a wild and wacky alternative; why don't we just teach them how to drive or ride first? If we had meaningful driver's training in this countyr, training that taught riders how to mix with traffic, how to operate in an emergency situation at freeway speeds, how to do basic maintenance so they can spot mechanical problems before they are life-threatening, etc, we might see such a sizeable drop in crashes and fatalities (can't die if you don't crash, right?) that we won't need to enact HP limits.



Or we can keep promoting knee-jerk reaction legislation that does nothing and will never be enacted.
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