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Old 01-04-2007, 03:18 PM   #231
drsmithy
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Default Re: Power to Wait



And how long will it take for someone to work around the engine management system?


Not long. But riders who do this are outside the scope of this discussion.


I would wager there would be links and articles online detailing ways around the engine management system even before the law is put into place.


More than likely. But, firstly, the law's objective is not to target people who would ride illegally and, secondly, people prepared to do this would just ignore the licencing scheme anyway and buy an unrestricted machine to start with.


It all goes back to personal responsibility.


No, it goes back to the simple fact that you *don't* always know what's better for you than someone else. You can only be "personally responsible" when you are aware of all the variables. Someone getting onto a motorcycle for the first time is most certainly *not* aware of all the variables.
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Old 01-04-2007, 03:19 PM   #232
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Default Re: Power to Wait

There are country pathways that people have walked for ever, there is a push to block many of them. My point was that if someone's rights are being restricted its not only for safety reasons.



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Old 01-04-2007, 03:20 PM   #233
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Why not an either/or proposition? Either you get safety training before you register your motorcycle, or you have to do tiered licensing. Give the rider a choice. If he wants to start out with a literbike, safety training required.


Because training does not give you experience - and experience gained by 17 yo boys on litre class superbikes is often experience that never gets the opportunity to be leveraged.
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Old 01-04-2007, 03:34 PM   #234
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You are right there, but in this tiered system in EU, which I support, the beginners bike is not SV650, its not a 250 its a 125cc max 11hp. Start from the bottom.



In the US the smallest recommended is SV650 if you ever want to score.



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Old 01-04-2007, 03:53 PM   #235
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I think where we disagree is that i believe it's none of my governments business what bike I choose to ride.


It's the government's business what you ride on public roads.


Look, I *do* agree with your philosophy. I just don't agree that it's a workable foundation for society.
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Old 01-04-2007, 03:54 PM   #236
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Default Re: Power to Wait

Attachment 7 (Fatalities by age group) would suggest that people should 'wait' until they are 60 years old before attempting to ride. Lucky for me I meet that condition



Seriously, I wasn't able to see a graphic or statictical analysis that brought together all the factors...alcohol, unlicensed and untrained.



What % of fatalities were represented by trained, licensed, sober riders?
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Old 01-04-2007, 04:17 PM   #237
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Default Re: I'm an insensitive jerk



I think that the common thread here is that we want to protect people from their own bad judgment. Has anyone asked themselves why? If the people who we're most concerned about have an overwhelming tendency to get into single-vehicle accidents, who cares? They're not hurting anyone but themselves. Why not let a virgin rider get a 'busa and kill themselves? Why are Americans obsessed with protecting morons? How does it benefit us to keep these dumbasses in the gene pool? More importantly, is anyone else concerned that we're creating a culture that can't think for itself and make reasonable judgments just because there are a few dolts who can't seem to get it right? IMO, there's a logical conclusion that doesn't take a genius to reach when it comes down to legislation that only affects the individual.


Two big reasons:


1. It's expensive. Not just the cleanup cost, but the general impact to economy.

2. Every time somebody writes themselves (and possibly someone else) off on a motorcycle, busybodies around the world click their toungues, mutter "there outa be a law" and then actually start trying to have a law passed.


It is in everyone's best interests for motorcycling to be as safe as possible.
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Old 01-04-2007, 06:59 PM   #238
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Default Re: Power to Wait

Depends on if the Scotch is singlemalt or not.......
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Old 01-04-2007, 07:19 PM   #239
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Another classic example is the woman that sued mcdonalds because she burned herself when she knocked over her hot coffee.



Glad you brought that up. A quick Scroogle Search leads to this:



From the Law and Help Website



From the Public Citizen Website



The case AGAINST Stella Liebeck wasn't quite so cut-and-dried as the Newspapers made it out to be.



I read a few years ago some additional facts on this case that actually helped McD's, but wasn't able to find those references (and my mem'ry is too fallable to trust quoting them).
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Let them hate so long as they fear
политики предпочитают безоружных крестьян
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Nothing to see here, Citizen. Move along now...
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Old 01-04-2007, 07:27 PM   #240
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Default Re: Power to Wait

Heh! I own a SV650-04 (Micron full, Power Commander, re-geared.) I ride it slower than a chick. The thing has plenty of power.
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