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Old 01-04-2007, 09:13 AM   #211
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Default Exactly!!!!!

This is an editorial from the San Diego Union:

Speed on the highways, traffic authorities reiterate constantly, costs many thousands of lives each year. ... (But) speed is (also) tremendously costly measured directly in dollars and cents.

One safety council found, for example, in studying this aspect of speeding, that one light car which averaged 20 ½ miles a gallon at 40 miles an hour averaged only 13 ½ miles to the gallon of gasoline at 64 miles an hour.

Today's automobile is fast and powerful beyond all reason. Every time its wheels turn it wastes money without any return whatever to the owner who often speeds up without cause only to slow down a few miles later merely because the impulse to speed has passed.

It was written in 1937!!!!!!!!!
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Old 01-04-2007, 09:25 AM   #212
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Default Re: WOW!

Hey Fox, this guy is the exact reason why I don't believe in banning or censorship of any kind. We need people like him to keep talking and making a bigger ass of himself each day, just so we can see that people like this really exist. I know it's hard to wrap your mind around someone being this fuggin stupid, but when you see it in black and white every day, you have to believe it's true. This was the guy that was taking a break 2 days ago, right? I think we are lucky to have him, because you could search the world over and couldn't find a bigger dumb f&ck. He just gets better ever day.
I'm a knucklehead
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Old 01-04-2007, 09:47 AM   #213
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Default Re: Power to Wait

This would, of course, only apply to females....
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Old 01-04-2007, 09:52 AM   #214

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Default Re: Exactly!!!!!

Good stuff!
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Old 01-04-2007, 09:58 AM   #215
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Default Re: Power to Wait

If those statistics are accurate- why is my motorcycle insurance going down next year when I turn 65 [I am not complaining, just curious]? I currently ride a CBR1100XX modified for sport touring, but started with a Honda 55, Ducati 125, Yamaha 250, etc.

BTW: the MSF trains people here on Honda 185 that are illegal to buy. There are very few 50-250cc bikes for sale here so people couldn't start out on them if they wanted to.

I believe that tiered licensing for bikes and cars, along with training and good testing should be required.

BTW2: my niece took her driving test in NM and it lasted 8 minutes.

I still think that beginners should be driving/riding a beater because they WILL drop it/bang it up. My kids did this and it saved them money- yes they banged up their first 2 vehicles in avoidable accidents.

I think we forget that a lot of the mechanics of riding that ae automatic with us now, had to be consciously learned and practiced and remembered when we were learning.

BTW3: I also want tiered speed limits on open roads so skilled riders/drivers can have much higher speed limits.
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Old 01-04-2007, 09:59 AM   #216
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Default Re: Power to Wait

Being in law enforcement, I often see the results of vehicular accidents, including fatalities. While I do not doubt that motorcycle-involved accidents are up, they are still a drop in the bucket compared to automobile wrecks. I have seen several motorcycle-automobile accidents where the motorcycle rider's skill (and use of a helmet) was the deciding factor in a result of minor injuries.

It is my opinion that riders today are overall more competent and generally represent the top percentile of all vehicle operators on the road when it comes to awareness, caution, etc.

-I think it is the skill and courtesy of auto drivers that is terribly lacking. It seems like every year drivers get more reckless, and more dangerous. Whether it is tailgating, speeding, dangerous lane-changes, or a simple lack of attention, I am amazed that the fatality rate isn't higher (only technology is holding it at bay).
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Old 01-04-2007, 10:17 AM   #217
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Default Re: Power to Wait

Bloodless bureaucrats and sokkermoms alike consider motorcycle riding (sane or otherwise) a stunt. This perception is reinforced when Billy of Hells Accountants fame steppenwolfs himself off a cliff (screaming "freedoooommm" all the way down, no less). He died doing what he loved, man.

In other (tiered?) countries motorcycles are considered serious modes of transportation. They are statistically significant forms of transportation, at least. I wonder if those countries would have the tiered system if cars were as affordable as they are in the US? Further, are the numbers of young people riding motorbikes higher in Europe and the far east? I would guess that they are. In the US only the wild kids ride the motorbikes, ya know.

The bottom line is motorcycles are considered toys in the US.

Evidenced by:

A. A small percentage of motorcycle owners commute on their motorcycles- or own no other form of motorized transportation.

B. The types of motorcycles that are purchased in the US. Supersized motorized chromeplated excess, with the quadfunkenblatters and the matching spinning shiznits!

In order to keep the "just do something" legislation at bay (including a tiered licensing system) the wise tactical choice is to require mandatory MSF training in order to get a motorcycle endorsement.

It should be pointed out to the hand wringers that there is a significant- and in some cases onerous- availability problem of MSF basic rider classes. The classes for the entire year in NH are pretty much filled up by March. So, even if you want to do the "right" thing as a new rider you may have a problem doing it.

The next issue is the availability of quality suitable smaller displacement bikes. I read above that Kawasaki has a premium 250cc Ninja available for other markets. Bring it here as a "custom" model and see if it sells. Do it for the (inner) children, Kawasaki. If you really want to do newer riders a favor upgrade the plastics and introduce it as a "RACE" model.

Less is more, unless it is not enough. The 250cc Rebel is a case study in what not to do. Crappy suspension, laughable brakes, it handles like a dead cod and I am not confident that it has the power to get it done on the mean streets.

I want a bike that handles, has reasonable power, stops on demand and won't break the bank. Kawasaki's weeNinja is close, but not in stock US form. Not when I can get a used bike with adjustable suspension, good brakes, etc. for 1k more. The downside is the used bike has 3x the power.

Put yourself in the flipflops of a new rider- a new Kawasaki 250 for $3k that needs $750 in upgrades and suffers from the perception that it will be "outgrown" versus a used (scratched, needs new mirrors, only dumped once gently) 600cc machine for 4k?

Bottom line is I bought too much bike for a beginner. I am still alive, only cause of my catlike reflexes, genial disposition, and rakish good looks. Oh, wait, wrong multiple personality. I meant to say that I practice my skillz, have a immense case of road paranoia, and am in general a lucky bastard. Oh, and I took an MSF course that taught me which skills to practice, some basic street strategies, and most importantly that I have a lot to learn.

If they had only taught this grasshopper to put away enough food to survive winter....

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Old 01-04-2007, 10:45 AM   #218
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Default Re: Power to Wait

Rules and regulations are not always a bad thing, ferinstance it is nice to have an enforced consensus on which side of the road to use. However, regulations governing who can ride what size or class of bike and when will not work, UNLESS, the rules are made and enforced by people who understand bikes, and put the interests of riders first. Your typical DMV bureaucrat, non riding traffic cop, insurance actuary, etc. are not competent to make the rules or properly enforce them.

If dead or maimed bikers are a problem, it is in the industries best interest to solve them, because if things get bad enough the bureaucrats WILL step in, whether we like it or not.

On a road trip this summer I drove by a large HD dealership somewhere in NC or TN or thereabouts in the evening. The parking lot was being used for a rider training course or some such. There was probably about 20 or 30 big twins looping around cones and stuff like that. If more dealers ensured their customers were competent to buy the bikes they sold, maybe there would be fewer problems. If bars can't serve booze to a drunk or a minor, why should a bike dealer be allowed to sell a 160 HP unguided missile to someone who can't ride?

Up where I am the government used to be responsible for work site and worker safety. There were all kinds of problems because the government could or would not enforce the rules that had been put in place. So they changed the system, made the industry responsible for safety, and whenever there was a problem, they hit them where it hurt, the bottom line. Now it costs huge bucks to have an unsafe site or worker. Workers comp premiums could be as high as 20%, in other words. Safety improved rapidly and today work sites are much safer.

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Old 01-04-2007, 10:56 AM   #219
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Default Re: Power to Wait

I think that one of the things that is completeley overlooked in this debate about tiered licencing is that there is a hugh assumption that people will actualy ride between when they get their licence and when they are elligible to move up. There are some interesting statistics in Australia where one of the biggest group in the major accident (injury/fatality) on bikes is returning riders. These riders have had their liciences in many cases for over 20 years, now in their forties but haven't riden since they were teenages. I've put over a million killometers under 2 wheels and in my younger days I used to look up to these smooth grey haired riders. These days my age peers are much more likely to be incompetent and they scare the ***** out of me. Tiered licencing doen't address the long time licienced, very limited skill f***wits distorting the statistics.
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Old 01-04-2007, 11:24 AM   #220
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Default I'm an insensitive jerk

Here's another angle: If the studies show that most of the people who use poor judgment are involved in single-vehicle accidents (e.g. drunk riders, excessive speed for conditions, no license, no training, etc). This has absolutely nothing to do with either displacement or power-to-weight ratio.</p>

I think that the common thread here is that we want to protect people from their own bad judgment. Has anyone asked themselves why? If the people who we're most concerned about have an overwhelming tendency to get into single-vehicle accidents, who cares? They're not hurting anyone but themselves. Why not let a virgin rider get a 'busa and kill themselves? Why are Americans obsessed with protecting morons? How does it benefit us to keep these dumbasses in the gene pool? More importantly, is anyone else concerned that we're creating a culture that can't think for itself and make reasonable judgments just because there are a few dolts who can't seem to get it right? IMO, there's a logical conclusion that doesn't take a genius to reach when it comes down to legislation that only affects the individual.</p>

And I'll address those 'but our tax dollars have to cover cleaning up the mess' people. I seriously doubt that this is about the money. You can spend a lifetime trying to write down how many ways the government(s) waste your hard-earned tax dollars. Taking away certain freedoms (call 'em privileges, rights, whatever if you want -- we're all taking about the same thing) in order to save a few bucks is BS in the grand scheme of things. This really comes down to nosing into other peoples' business when it ultimately has no effect on us -- it's legislation to protect us from ourselves. If you ask me, no thanks.</p>
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