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Old 01-04-2007, 07:32 AM   #171
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Default Re: Power to Wait

i have to disagree with gabe. i believe in a tiered system.

interestingly, i never believed in it until my son started riding on the street. in the absence of such a system i imposed my own ... made him ride a 500 cc twin for six months before moving on to a bigger bike.

no matter how you try to rationalize it, modern sportbikes will plant you in the ground faster than you can blink an eye. a smaller bike, on the other hand, might break traction or swap a bit, rather than flicking you off.

selling a GSXR 1000 to a beginning rider is equivalent to strapping a beginning driver into a NASCAR for a spin around the block. would that make sense?
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Old 01-04-2007, 07:36 AM   #172
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Default Re: Excellent Post... follow the data

Truth sometimes hurts. Thanks again.
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Old 01-04-2007, 07:36 AM   #173

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Default Re: Performance stats for Kawasaki Ninja ZX-2R / ZXR250

Yep, you definately couldn't hurt your self on that...
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Old 01-04-2007, 07:36 AM   #174
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Default Re: Power to Wait

From the Hurt report:

"Motorcycle riders between the ages of 16 and 24 are significantly overrepresented in accidents; motorcycle riders between the ages of 30 and 50 are significantly underrepresented."

"The motorcycle riders involved in accidents are essentially without training; 92% were self-taught or learned from family or friends. Motorcycle rider training experience reduces accident involvement and is related to reduced injuries in the event of accidents. "

Either you are worried about the government black helicopters coming to take your bike away or you are interested in saving lives. If you want to save lives at a minimum:

1) Mandatory MSF training for all new riders. No training no bike.

C) Mandatory driver education for cagers. That education would include things like how to spot motorcycles, bicycles, and pedestrians. (I've been hit by 2 cars and one bus on my bicycle - never on my M/C - knock on wood). And throw in some serious PSAs every once in a while.

3f) Mandatory driver/ rider test for anyone over age 65. The largest portion of the population are becoming senior citizens. God bless em! But they are also becoming the largest percentage of fatal accidents disproportionate to their percentage of the population. The states that merely perform vision and accuity tests have the lowest accident rates in this age group.

Motor vehicle deaths are the 6th largest cause of death in the US. It doesn't have to be that way.

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Old 01-04-2007, 07:38 AM   #175
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Default Re: Power to Wait

It's more like strapping them into a 3,000 HP dragster.

I image a GSXR 1000 will both leave a NASCAR car in the dust 0-60 and is harder to manage in a maximum launch drag race.
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Old 01-04-2007, 07:42 AM   #176
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Default Re: Power to Wait


Worked fine, too.
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Old 01-04-2007, 07:44 AM   #177
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Default Re: Power to Wait

The answer is surely to combine restrictions on power to weight ratio with some form of mandatory training. I can still remember the first time I rode my first 'real bike' - a Kawasaki 350cc Avenger disc valve two stroke which weighed about 350lbs and made a staggering 45 hp(!). I opened it up in second and it was like my brain was following a hundred yards behind me until I backed off. Once I had gained some experience it was no problem but I was glad I had ridden a 200cc bike for a year before buying the Kawasaki. I think I would have been a manace to myself and others if I had gone out on the Kawa without any experience at all, and the idea of doing that on a modern litrebike is ridiculous. As for cruisers, it is as much the weight as the power which is a factor here. There is a lot of kinetic energy in an 800lb bike at even 60mph and it can easily all go pear-shaped if an inexperienced rider doesn't know how to handle it in an emergency situation. Training can help. Riders returning to bikes after a long time off can be caught out by the power and weight of modern bikes as well, a 750 from the 1980s only made maybe 75hp as opposed to todays 120hp 600cc bikes or 100hp cruisers. All the bleating about personal liberty is nonsense, there are lots of laws in place to control what you can do on the roads already and personally I would rather not have inexperienced kids on 150hp bikes anywhere near me on the road.
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Old 01-04-2007, 07:45 AM   #178
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Default Re: Power to Wait

1. First, this is not an article, it is an editorial.

2. Second, this editorial has garnered an unusually high number of responses, and I have not read them all. I apologize for repeating things others have already posted.

3. I agree that eliminating alcohol from riding would change all the accidents statistics--instantly and drastically--for the positive. But the exhortations have already been made, and this is not a change that can be legislated. It is simply up to the riders themselves, and they could care less about what you think.

4. For training to be beneficial, it has to be much more than what it is currently. If you've never been on a motorcycle and you take the MSF course and get your endoresement, you are still a noob. You simply can't develop the reflexes, the intuition, or the wherewithal to lean a bike over as far as it can safely go without years of experience. On the other hand, you could create a comprehensive course that took a beginner and taught him or her beginning, intermediate, and advanced skills over the course of a summer, in a combination of controlled and real-world environments. That person may still lack real-world knowledge, but could compensate with skills that many long-time riders never bother to learn. But the cost would be prohibitive, and no one would ever do it.

5. Bottom line is, tiered licensing would discourage many people from riding, and that, in and of itself, would prevent deaths.
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Old 01-04-2007, 07:45 AM   #179
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Default Re: I don't care at all.

You can tier it, tear it, bare it or wear it, kids (especially boys) and any motor vehicles are going to be dangerous. What law can stop that?

The first year/10kmiles on a bike, on the street is dicey stuff, make it past there and your chances for continued survival increase dramatically.

A more mature person is going to have a better chance of riding within his limitations but that's no guarantee of anything. I will always be against any law discriminating against anyone 18 and older as long as it's "legal" for 18 year olds to go kill/die in some STUPID F-ING WAR!!!
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Old 01-04-2007, 07:58 AM   #180
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Default Re: Power to Wait

Good point about my flat tax argument. But I was really making the point that having a single, over-simplified solution to all ills is crazy.

I'm not sure how you got the idea I proposed anything other than better training for motorcyclists and awareness in other road users in my editorial.

Thanks for reading in any case!
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