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Old 07-02-2004, 11:59 AM   #111
pdad13
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Default Re: 1907 Curtiss V-8 record bike

That's an excellent point. So, then they go and do the next best thing. They allow themselves to be extorted.
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Old 07-02-2004, 01:48 PM   #112
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Michael Moore is without a doubt a socialist self serving wind bag. I disagreed whole heartedly with him on his second amendment hit piece Bowling for Columbine. That being said as the old saying goes even a stopped clock is right twice a day. I have yet to see his 9/11 film but I have seen some good reviews of it on some of the paleo-conservative libertarian websites I read daily. His idea about the Israelis was of course pure unadulterated idiocy. He, however has a good point about the Taliban, as the last I heard Mullah Omar and many Taliban fighters are still roaming the countryside there. VWW
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Old 07-02-2004, 03:32 PM   #113
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I believe that our relations with the Israelis are and have been at the heart of the U.S.'s problems in the Middle East lately (other than that Iraq thing, of course that Shah of Iran stuff and the like didn't win us many friends there in the past). The Israelis and the Palestinians remind me of the Hatfields and McCoys, hopefully they can soon gain the wisdom these "Hillbillys" achieved over a hundred years ago. I support Israels right to exist and thrive, the Jewish People have a place in my heart. I do believe that if peace and security were their true goals it could be achieved by giving up the Palestinians land. I don't buy these "Security Concerns". The Israelis have demonstrated repeatedly that they can kick the entire Middle Easts A$$ (without resorting to the "Bomb", which only they have there), the Palestinians are no more a threat to them than Mexico (or Cuba) is to us. Build a wall around all of Israel if you want. I consider myself to be an amateur student of History, as far as the U.S. position should be, two things seem very clear, Don't Invade Russia, Don't mess around with (try to force influence on) the Middle East. Gentlemen (vww/pdad) a pleasure, should we find ourselves together I got first round, if we start to talk politics... so be it . PS Whew had to unload some this this stuff!
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Old 07-02-2004, 04:52 PM   #114
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Always good to hear differing viewpoints from rational people HK. VWW
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Old 07-04-2004, 07:05 AM   #115
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Hello Dale,



Sorry I am so long in responding but the sprog and me have been visiting our buds for the last week.



You are essentially correct in you concepts of torque and HP, and you are also partially correct in your assertion that mass (weight) has little effect on top speed EXCEPT that it has an effect on accelerating the mass to top speed. In other words, once you get a large mass up to speed it takes essentially the same amount of energy for equally shaped objects to maintain that speed but getting them there is a different story.



I think the HP claims for this sound a little on the light side too, but it's possible. It all depends on the aerodynamics and the length of the run. Aerodynamic drag, depending upon the shape of the object, has at least two terms: one linear and one quadratic. Depending on the shape of the object the quadratic term begins to dominate above certain speeds and the drag forces increase exponentially with increasing speed. That's why it's really hard to get a motorcycle to do 200m mph irregardless of engine size.



Hope this helps.



Martin
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Old 07-05-2004, 04:32 AM   #116
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Yep, Van. He is a snake oil salesman for sure. Give a guy a camera and if he shocks us or makes us laugh or cry, suddenly he's a genius about everything. Chalk that up America's misguided cult of the celebrity. Being in the creative field, I have a pretty good idea of how images and words can be used to distort and/or simplify a complicated issue. He is a master of all of this.



If people want to consider his point of view, fine. Just don't take it as gospel. It's certainly not that.



As for Afghanistan, it's a tough job. There will be Taliban and pro-Taliban elements there for years to come. However, to assert that the U.S. Military is not doing the job is not accurate. I think it's plainly apparent that no other military force could have accomplished what our forces have in such a short period of time. And remember we're using Afghan troops for much of the operation. And the fact that Moore could make such an uninformed proclaimation is what really irks me. He is of the Vietnam-syndrome mindset. If we continue to live by that standard, we'll be paralyzed forever. And aside from that, what would he have us do? What would it say if we fought completely by proxy--sent some other non-U.S. force to do the job and they botched it. How weak would we appear to our enemies and the rest of the world? These bastards rely on the fact that we don't have a stomach for war. Bin Laden has said it outright. Even Saddam has said it. Their strategy is always to draw us into "another Vietnam." Everyone running around saying we can't do the job plays right into that strategy.



As far as the Israeli comment, I politely told Mr. Moore outright that it was total nonsense. Know what he did? He sort of just looked at the ground and changed the subject. This is a man with an agenda. Any truth that dosen't fit into his agenda seems to be discarded.
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Old 07-05-2004, 05:05 AM   #117
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HK, the Palestinians had an independent state in 1948 as part of the original plan for the establishment of Israel. Had they accepted this arrangement, they and the Israelis could have had a very prosperous relationship. Instead, the most of the middle east attacked Israel in attempt to drive them into the ocean.



The whole issue is far too complicated to go into here, but it goes back to around the turn of the century and the original Zionists. I fear that this issue will never be worked out. There are parties on both sides who derive their power and prestige from the continuation of the conflict. The goal of the radical Palestinians is not to establish an independent Palestinian state, but to destroy Israel. Conversely, the Israelis have gotten religion too mixed up in their political system. This thing could go on forever.



I'd love to have the drink someday. It's nice to see a disscussion of politics and world events doesn't have to turn into a shouting/sloganeering match, as is the current fashion. Tell you what, though, let's get back to bikes.
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Old 07-05-2004, 08:17 AM   #118
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Don't forget that Afganistan was the USSR's Vietnam. I know that we gave aid to the Mujadeen (sp?) then, but the Taliban and their ally Al Queda are supported by some fairly wealthy folks in the middle east. To accomplish the goal of pacifying the countryside there by ridding it of both of the afore mentioned groups will most likely take many years, and a whole lot more troops than the 10,000 that we have there now. VWW
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Old 07-06-2004, 08:44 AM   #119
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Can't forget about the Soviets and Afghanistan. With a far greater military force (in numbers and equipment) they were hopelessly bogged down. I don't care how many wealthy folks/sick bastards the enemy has bankrolling them. They are hopelessly outgunned and outmanned (in the senses of ability, technology and training.) They are fighting with 20+ year-old equipment. And they are not benefiting from quality intelligence and information about their enemy, such as the Mujahadeen did in the 80's.



They do have some advantages. Like the Viet Cong, they have the lay of the land. They have some local populations that are sympathetic or terrified collaborators. They have an unstable political and social situation to exploit. And they are ruthless, conscienceless animals.



Don't get me wrong. They will do some damage. Those 20+ year-old weapons can still kill. But this is a war, isn't it? War is never pretty or neat. But it is sometimes necessary. I think most of us will agree that this one is.



But we've learned a lot from Viet Nam. And the Soviet disaster in Afganistan. I would say the smart money's on us.



P.S. I'd like to see some more of out troops in there, too.
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