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Old 06-26-2003, 05:49 PM   #241
electraglider_1997
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Default Re: What shop is that?

Get the V65 manual and learn to do it yourself. I even lever on and off tires. Saves alot of coin and makes the motorcycle seem more "yours". You gotta figure that most of these guys working on your bike at the dealer are more interested in break time then doing a quality time on your bike. Not all of them but who knows who'll end up screwing with your ride?
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Old 06-26-2003, 05:59 PM   #242
Jason523
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Default Traded in mine!

I couldn't believe the deal I was told over the phone. The deal was to pay off my brand new SV650, that I never made a payment on, for a new leftover 2002 R1, for around 10,9. Did it!



That SV was the worst bike I ever rode. Wind banged against you as it labored to get to 90mph, all the while being annoyed by the ugly gauge display. It sounds like a lawnmower and piped not much better. The best fun you'll have is at 35 mph, on a twisty road. and all this from only 100 miles on that. My R1 is great
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Old 06-26-2003, 07:34 PM   #243
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Default Re: Burns Gets Naked With Twins!

Luke I am your father
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Old 06-26-2003, 09:19 PM   #244
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Default Antiquated technology?

OK smarty... What exactly is antiquated about the Buell engine? Just bcause the basic architecture has existed for decades, you think the engine is antiquated? LOL! Harley was racing four valve OHC engines back in the 1920's; it's nothing new. You've fallen victim to the mass marketing hype of peak HP/cc means highest technology. Ask yourself what's wrong with that line of thinking when it comes to a street bike?



You might check into the Buell fuel injection. It puts the open loop systems favored by Japan Inc. to shame.



More parts, higher revs, and smaller displacement does not make a bike high tech. Ask any engineer, truly high tech stuff is elegantly simplistic in it's basic design/architecture.



Radiator? Don't need one, ducted forced-air cooling is far more efficient.



Little high revving cylinders? Nope, it is more useful to have big power down low where it is immediately available.



Five figure rev limit? No thanks, the low revving Buell is far more efficient and provides its power where it can be easily accessed.



Four valves/cyl? Two will work fine for a low revving long stroking engine. And make the lifter hydraulic so I don't ever have to bother with valve lash adjustments.



Chain drive? No thanks, the belt is quit, smooth and zero maintenance.



Open loop only fuel injection? No thaks, give mine a self learning closed loop mode too, so I can tinker with intake and exhaust without befuddling the engine's carburetion.



Catalytic converter? Don't need one if your engine is efficient and your fuel injection works well.



Two disk/caliper front brake? Who needs that? Make mine one big rim mounted disk and lighten the wheel and reduce the unspring weight thus allowing the front suspension to soak up bumps like nothing else before it.



Wet sump engine? No thanks, give me the same configuration that F1 cars use, dry sump, and while you're at it make the torque box of the swing arm dual use, make it serve as an oil reservoir too.



Separate fuel tank? Nah, it's better to centralize the mass and eliminate parts; make it part of the frame.



Yeah, all that antiquated technology really sucks.



R&D testing by the public eh? You mean like how Suzuki recalled all the GSXR600's when they started eating valves and destroying heads after just 15 hours of track time? Ooops, that's right, they never recalled a single bike, they left it up to the owners to fork over the cash for a repair. Or like they did when their Bandit 1200 burned oil so fast you had to carry a gallon with you on a moderate length trip? Or maybe you have fond memories of the cracked frames on the TL1000R's? The oil leaks of the ZX12R? Yeah, those Japan Inc machines sure set the standard.
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Old 06-26-2003, 09:43 PM   #245
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Default The myth of A/C engines & EPA emissions

I keep hearing this myth, that air cooled motorcycle engines will soon be extinct since they cannot hope to meet the strict emissions regulations of the near future.



It is pure bull*****, a myth base on junk science.



Virtually all liquid cooled sport bikes utilize fuel injection and catalytic converters in order to meet current and upcoming EPA emissions requirements.



The air cooled engines in Buell motorcycles use no catalytic converters and already meet strict CARB 2004 emissions standards.



In the future, if need be, Buell can simply incorporate a catalytic converter into their exhaust tracts just like many of the current liquid cooled engines. Problem solved.



There is nothing about a modern air cooled engine, especially one that utilizes ducted forced air cooling, that will ever prevent it from meeting the same emissions standards that a liquid cooled engine can meet.



In fact, air cooled engines excel versus their liquid cooled counterparts in one very critical area of emissions testing... the cold start. Where an air cooled engine will come up to temperature very quickly thus eliminating the need for a pollution laden over-rich fuel-air mixture, a liquid cooled engine however, continues spewing nasty hydrocarbon laden exhaust much longer as it must not only warm itself but also all its coolant.



BTW... What happens to all those nasty toxic catalytic converters when they reach the end of their lives? Maybe there's someone in NJ collecting them in his back yard? That'd be some nasty stuff to have seep into the ground water supply.



Kida makes you say "hmmmmmm" don't it?
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Old 06-26-2003, 10:34 PM   #246
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Default Current owner of a Hawk GT

broadly eluding to some of the discussion here (damn, alot of comments in just a short amount of time) ..



I am currently an owner of a 1989 Honda Hawk GT, whoich has personality for a "japanese" bike, or so I'm told. Haven't ridden much else on the street, excpet a 1986 Honda VF1000R, which way to fast/race oriented for me, much compromised for the track even compared to a modern R1 and stuff...



Anyway, I'm looking to sell the Hawk and move on up in the world. What'm I considering you ask?

the Buell XB9S or the Suzuki SV1000



As you can guess, this article initially held great interest for me. Unfortunately they tested the 650 insteak of the full liter verson of the SV.



Interestingly, Burns complains for the SV about styling (enirely subjective), and three things that are different on the SV1000, Power, Tranny, and Suspension. How the tranny and suspension work on the SVK we'll just have to wait and find out. however, with the old TL motor we all know that the power is terrific.



The Buell is damn nice though. Can't wait for the SVK to hit the dealerships so that I can test ride one...., though if I think the Hawk GT needs more personality, I might be disapointed in the SVK.....



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Old 06-27-2003, 03:58 AM   #247
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Default Re: The myth of A/C engines & EPA emissions

Really? All my HD/Duc -loving moto-borthers will be very excited to read that. Any source you could reference where I could do some further reading on air-cooled vs. liquid cooled designs? I know Yamaha just bulit the Warrior with an air-cooled design but then why did Harley go ahead and build the V-Rod? My point was that the Lightning chassis seems like it was built for a liquid cooled engine. The rear cylinder is so wrapped up in the frame that they had to add a fan to cool it. Or is that ducted forced air cooling? (No, I am not being sarcastic). Anyway, it seems like the XB9S was designed with a liquid cooled engine in mind but some deadline was missed and a revamp of the sportster engine was subsituted. It works fine but my point is that exciting things are coming for Harley and the V-rod motor and the XB9s chassis are the direction that Harley is going to have to head to remain competitive and not EPA themselves out of existence. I know plenty of current Harley owners that wouldn't mind getting the VRSCA motor in a Dyna or a Dresser package. Myself, I just want to know that my XB9S isnt going to crap parts the whole way across the state when I go on charity rides with all my cruiser riding buddies.
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Old 06-27-2003, 04:29 AM   #248
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Default Re: Antiquated technology?

You forgot to mention that except for EFI and catalytic converters this supposed "latest hi-tech" Japanese engine technology was developed long before WWII.



And not by the Japanese.
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Old 06-27-2003, 07:59 AM   #249
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Default Re: Burns Gets Naked With Twins!

Nice take on the ultimate value of things. Yet another thing to throw in the mix of why we like a certain bike.



One little variation on this theme - I think that (unlike cars) ANY pristine old bike turns heads. I just finished a 1200 mile jaunt with a guy that has a primo 80's VFR 500 and it turned heads at every stop. I also witnessed a good size crowd around a clean mid-70's CB360T - a whole lotta' "I used to have one of those" nostalga was kicking in.



My rule: No matter how many bikes you buy, never sell any of them. Keep up with the maintenance and watch them as they go from new to old to cool classic .

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Old 06-27-2003, 08:32 AM   #250
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Default Appeal

Well, most bikes have a lasting appeal in one way or another.



As for the appeal of old V65's, I guess you'd just have to ride one... they are surprisingly capable handlers (with modern tires) for what they are (which is a shaft-driven streetbike - not a crotch-rocket designed for racing and track days), still fast even by today's standards, way more comfortable than almost anything made today with comparable performance, the V4 engine feels and sounds like nothing else ever made - way different than today's VFR's or ST's, and it's almost totally unnoticed by the the cops. It can be cruised slow like a Harley or ridden pretty hard through twisties and not fall on its face at either task (most bikes fail this test). Think of it as a slightly toned down, better handling V-Max and you'll get the idea. No one in their right mind is gonna drool over one, but I always get a grin from riding it!



And 20 years from now, the R6 will STILL be a great motorcycle to learn how to go around a track quickly on or sport ride, even though modern 600's of the day will still be more capable in the hands of a pro. And my guess is as long as they don't get crashed, many will still be around just as old 80's Interceptors and Gixxers are today.



I don't dislike Harleys for what they are, I dislike them for what they are not: good performing and for the most part practical. I have no problem with building pose-factor into otherwise capable motorcycles (Italian bikes are a good example of capable bikes with a high pose factor). Put a V-Rod engine in a modernized Dyna-type chassis with standard, upright ergos and some modern radial sport-touring tires, and you'd have a VERY capable, practical, pure streetbike with LOADS of character that would hit the bullseye with me and probably lots of typical Harley and European buyers too.
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