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-   -   '03 Best of the Best Feedback (http://www.motorcycle.com/forum/mo-reader-feedback/1861-03-best-best-feedback.html)

SeanAlexander 05-20-2003 05:58 PM

Re: Wheee! Look at me! I'm an Engineer!!!!!!
 
It may not have been "physics" but it WAS correct.

smythie 05-20-2003 06:15 PM

Re: Peak HP vs Torque (Ftlbs, Newton Meters) be clear what you are talking about
 
Your remark about Ferrari and their V12 to V10 swap is not entirely true. Sure, pumping losses became an issue and the package size was also a big factor (much more so than the pumping losses), but the limiting factor was valve train as far as power was concerned.



You see the bottom end of the V12 in theory could rev much faster than the V10 for the same TDC and BDC accelerations, but they could not use those extra revs to their advantage because the top end of the engine (the valve train) could not do those revs.... So, they bit the bullet and went for the less balanced configuration (they had big vibration problems early on in the V10's lifetime) to be able to better exploit the 3litre engine's torque that.



On another note, this whole argument will be made defunct once individual valve actuation is sufficiently developed. This will allow a MUCH broader scope for tuning, basically removing the advantages of the v-twin over the triples, fours, fives and sixes. Could you imagine a litre bike with 100Nm+ from 500 rpm all the way to 16000 rpm (or the limiting speed of the components)?



Back onto the original point, I believe that there should be some equalling restrictions put into place in the category. Remember, this is a production based category, if you want to see innovation in big chunks, follow the GP category with its prototype based rules. But if you want an exciting category where all of the manufacturers can compete equally with their production bikes, you need to apply restrictions to the obviously advantaged team, or conversely release restrictions (give slight advantages in certain areas) on the less advantaged team.

Grover 05-20-2003 06:27 PM

Re: Wheee! Look at me! I'm an Engineer!!!!!!
 
Actually guys, one of the best measures of an engines performance potential lies in the integral of the torque, which I'm sure you both know is the area under the torque curve, which for a given engine configuration with a given flow capacity generally remains constant. Of course the shape of the torque curve can be manipulated with cams, exhaust, etc., but the area beneath it (again, all things being equal) will generally remain the same.

smythie 05-20-2003 06:29 PM

Re:Correction
 
Did anyone stay with it? Are you kidding, towards the end of Doohan's reign, all of them were using the "Big Bang" firing system. Doohan was the only one with the skills (insanity?) to ride the knife edge that was the individual pulse NSR. After that point, the riders all told their respective amnufacturers that they preferred the "Big Bang" engines and up to the end of the 2 stroke era, all of the V4's were "Big Bangers".



The "Big Bang" was not only easier on the rear tyre, it was also quite a lot more rideable.



The reason Ducati went with the four pulse was that it made more power and so produced better lap times. That is the reason Doohan stayed with the 4 pulse NSR as long as possible.

12er 05-20-2003 08:35 PM

Re: Johnny.... you missed a great opportunity.
 
Was this supposed to be directed at KPaul? Unlimited is Formula Extreme in the AMA, superbike and supersport still should be closely production based. MotoGP is the dream machines and the reason I watch religiously.



None of this has anything to do with the street. The post that started this rant was from reepicheep and the concept of the AMA hiring a gaggle of physics professers to analize every engine config and valvetrain to create a handicaping system where any bike could race in superbike. No sanctioning body in their right minds would do that. None the less who would watch gixxer 1000's so strangled that they compete with a SV650 or a buell.



Liter bikes are whats hot, so lets race em, 750's have been dead for years. If a V-twin cant hang, then create its own series so it can, but dont strangle every other bike because of it.

12er 05-20-2003 08:54 PM

Re: MotoNASCAR
 
NASCAR is the biggest joke on the planet. "Stock Car" racing where absolutely not one stinking part is from a stock car. Maybe its that I just dont understand what the word "stock" means. V8 in a taurus, guess I missed that option at the local ford dealer. Though I do love that the SHO's engine was made by Yamaha...

Jexter 05-21-2003 01:16 AM

Re: Longride, Buzglyd, and seruzawa are you listening to 5150boy
 
LOL! It's a great thing to read a mag in which a regular reader is, um, regularly flamed by a half-dozen people, including an editor!



Speaking of, I need ta renew today.



Rock on, MO!

Jexter 05-21-2003 01:24 AM

Re: Longride, Buzglyd, and seruzawa are you listening to 5150boy
 
Liter bikes are overkill? I'll eat my head if you could push a ZX500 to its limit on a back road.

fizzchem 05-21-2003 04:35 AM

Re: Johnny.... you missed a great opportunity.
 
"but dont strangle every other bike because of it"



Which bikes are being strangled now? Or last year?

fizzchem 05-21-2003 04:38 AM

Re: '03 Best of the Best Feedback
 
I'll race you on my CB-1 and you'll be a bowl of cereal. :)


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