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Old 04-15-2003, 11:05 AM   #41
SeanAlexander
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Default Re: '03 600s, Part II: On the Dirty Boulevard...

Go count the Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki and Honda ads on MO, and get back to me.
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Old 04-15-2003, 11:19 AM   #42
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Default Re: Inconsistencies between Part 1 and Part 2?

Questions don't get any easier to answer. Part 1 was a racetrack comparison with some assorted comments on comfort. It was written BEFORE we had a chance to spend any serious time on the streets. The seat on the Kawasaki IS comfortable, my ass never got sore or numb. The problem is with the angle of the seat causing you to slide foreward into the tank, creating discomfort in a part of your body that doesn't even come into contact with the seat. The seat itself is fine and the simple addition of a grippier seat cover might even solve the sliding problem.



As for the R6 front feeling like it wanted to tuck, on the stock Dunlop D208s, the feeling was there on the racetrack, but on the street, the lean angle and cornering forces are such that it doesn't surface. Since the feeling of impending tuck is missing on the street, it isn't something that we would hold against the bike (tires) on the street portion of the test.
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Old 04-15-2003, 11:33 AM   #43
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Default Re: '03 600s, Part II: On the Dirty Boulevard...

The Honda is not really available in the marketplace -- they ship out a few token ones, but they won't be generally available for some time. So, not only can't MO test one, you can't buy one yet anyway.
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Old 04-15-2003, 12:08 PM   #44
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Default Re: Too sharp for their own good?

If I bought any one of these bikes, or pretty much any sportbike that doesn't come stock with one, a steering damper would be one of my first additions.
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Old 04-15-2003, 01:10 PM   #45
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Default Re: '03 600s, Part II: On the Dirty Boulevard...

First off, I was speaking about mags in general, not MO.



I never implied that MO exchanges favorable reviews for money. In fact, I've always maintained that the small annual fee of just over $10 would help to prevent such carryon, and I'll gladly be paying it again next month because of this. However, I know from experience that the "money for reviews" game is played year-round in the mag industry, so I stand by my words.



In fact, MO, or at least some of it's writers, seem to agree with me. As your own staff writer put it in the Open Class Shootout: 2001, "And, while we're not saying another magazine didn't have their reasons (ad-choo! Oh, excuse us...)"



So lighten up, cut back on the joe, and give me a break, Sean.



Dardas.
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Old 04-15-2003, 01:37 PM   #46
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Default Buell, however, has a LOT of rotational inertia

The Buell has a built in "anti-head-shake" in that the wheel has much more rotational inertia (gyroscope behavior) than any other sportbike out there. By having so much weight (the brake disk) spread out to the edge of the wheel, this naturally dampens the steering rate as it requires more force to deflect the wheel.



And the faster the bike goes, the more force is required.



Personally, thats probably a good idea for a streetbike, but racebikes have been going the other way (some superbikes in the UK use 4 disk setups specifically to reduce rotational inertia by allowing the brakes to be 4 very small disks.)

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Old 04-15-2003, 02:04 PM   #47
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Default Re: '03 600s, Part II: On the Dirty Boulevard...

I have to agree with Dardas on this one about some of the other mags- you just wait. I'll bet Honda wins Motor Cyclist's street part of their shootout, simply because it's a Honda and Boehm likes them.
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Old 04-15-2003, 02:10 PM   #48
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Default Re: '03 600s, Part II: On the Dirty Boulevard...

You predict Honda wins the street part of the Motorcyclist shootout? Really stickin' your neck out there, ain't you!



That is sort of like predicting the sunset!



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Old 04-15-2003, 02:23 PM   #49
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Default Re: '03 600s, Part II: On the Dirty Boulevard...

I never have bought a bike I didn't ride first, so I pretty much formed my own opinions. I read road tests for entertainment, as you suggest, but also to help me narrow down those bikes that I might be interested in. For example, I had never really considered the Triumph Speed 4 until reading the MO test. Probably would still go for a Speed Triple instead, but I would at least try get a test ride on the Speed 4.



You are certainly right about the Brit Bike tests -- they are entertaining but have little relevance to real riding in MY universe.
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Old 04-15-2003, 02:37 PM   #50
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Default Re: Too sharp for their own good?

A tank-slapper is certainly the result of either a front-end slide OR the front coming down from anything (bump, wheelie) even slightly crossed-up. The cause is that the contact patch is actually behind the line that the forks are attached to the frame on. This means that any turn from straight actually moves the contact patch SLIGHTLY forward. The slapper continues because as the handlebars whip back so the contact patch is far enough back but then the inertia on the bars carries the contact patch SLIGHTLY forward on the other side - then that just keeps on going until luck has it's way and the forces keeping the contact patch back overcome the inertial forces moving the bars from side to side.



Since my last physics class occured in a drunken haze as I switched from Mechanical Engineering to English as a major in College - this is the best I can do - but it must be incredibly hard to engineer out a tankslapper w/out just fitting a damper.



My VFR was prone to tankslappers and I took the time to figure it out as best I could - and that's what I came up with
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