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dwr461 12-25-2002 07:12 AM

Re: Nobody does it better thanks MO...the death of the V-Twin continues (749 & Firebo

I4's are better the twins at some things and twins are better than I4's at other things. To say that one is always better than another is short sighted and leads to the inherent, unquestioned believe that one's personal preferences and culture is better than anyone else's. It's that type of thinking that helped lead to the downfall of British motorcycling. It's also that type of thinking that made it OK for the Japanese soldiers to test biological and nerve agents on chinese villagers during WWII. My point KPaul is that from what I've read in your previous posts about Japanese products you, sir, are a bigot. Japanese products are very good and in some cases the best in some cases they are not the best. But you seem to automatically believe that just because it's Japanese it must be the best. Go to your Webster's Dictionary and look up words like racism and bigoty. Then take a good long look at yourself.

I'm not trying to be mean to you KPaul but you should know how your posts appear to others. Now please go have a good holiday with your family.

Merry Christmas and take care,



KPaulCook 12-25-2002 09:17 AM

Yes I am a bigot. A bigot in favor of quality and value
LOL You are taking this way way to serious. Hey this whole thing is a joke you know. Maybe you have been taking the Highway man posts as gospel. I am not a bigot. I think V-Twins are on their way out both in racing and eventually in sportbikes. I am sure their will be V-Twin cruisers for ever. What makes the Japanese bike makers so good is that they don't take things for granted and rest on their laurels . Honda is one of the most admired companies in the world for good reason. American corporate leaders could learn something from Mr. Honda. But now Japanese management techniques have fallen out of favor with Americans. Enron and short term thinking dominate the thinking of US CEOs. Business as usual for US automakers poor quality, selling cars with sexy adds and rebates. People thought the Japanese were down and out because of lousy Japanese government fiscal and monetary policy. I predict that eventually GM and Ford will be much smaller companies than they are now. Why you ask? Because of the very thing you mentioned myoptic short term thinking. Because Honda and Toyota are thinking long term, case in point hybrid cars, they will dominate auto sales for the rest of this century. U.S. can only make SUVs and Trucks. But now even that market is in danger. Think about it. I only said V-Twins were on their way out. Aprillia has gone to a triple in MotoGP. Even Ducati has gone to a V-4. Triumph makes good bikes but none are V-Twins. Now do you still say I am a bigot????

Do you ????

dwr461 12-25-2002 10:18 AM

Re: Yes I am a bigot. A bigot in favor of quality and value
Yes you are, because to you if it's Japanese it must be better. If only because it's Japanese. That is the definition of racism. If their business practices are so superior why are they in such a reccession and laying off lots and lots of workers? Their products are not always better. Sometimes their products are superior, sometimes not. Just because twins might currently be on the out on the track makes no difference. Most riders don't buy their bikes for the track. The average rider will go just as fast as they're capable of driving. How fast the bike is capable of going doesn't enter into the equation. IE: Usually the bike is capable of more speed than the rider is willing or able to use.

Take care,


Buzglyd 12-25-2002 10:19 AM

Re: Yes I am a bigot. A bigot in favor of quality and value
I kind of agree with you on some things like American car manufacturers making crap for instance. I've always owned Japanese cars because I do think they are superior. I've owned a few German ones too but they're so damn expensive to fix!

Now regarding your twins rant. In racing, the rules make the engine. You think Honda produced a V-5 on a whim? No, the rules structure in MotoGP favors a 5 cylinder layout. I suppose using your logic, we could say the rules "unfairly" benefit Honda. Is it unfair that two-strokes are only allowed 500cc? Imagine a 990cc two-stroke for a moment....

I would bet that if 4s and 5s continue to dominate, the formula will change to help 2s and 3s. That's what the rules are for, to create a diversity of machinery on a mostly level playing field.

If you thought World Superbike was boring with it's parade of twins (they waited too long to tweak the rules) it will be equally dull with a parade of inline 4s. Kind of like a spec series.

Go to and check out the tech cafe page. There is an interesting explanation of why Ducati went to the V-4 layout.

KPaulCook 12-25-2002 06:37 PM

Re: Yes I am a bigot. A bigot in favor of quality and value
I kind of see you are the type that only reads what he wants to read/believe. Japanese business processes haven't failed Japanese governent policies (fiscal and monetary policies). Fiscal policy is government spending and taxation. Monetary policy is money supply manipulation by discount rates, reserve requirements and open market operations (buying and selling government debt instruments). The Japanese government along with their big banks made some poor decisions thus Japan inc. suffered. Still Honda, Toyota and others flourish because of their plants in the U.S. Where superior Japanese management with American labor and design/engineering work in harmony, unlike American companies. So I think you don't know what you are talking about. You sound like an older Harley guy who has something against the Japanese. You try to hide but I can read the bigotry between your coded sentences.

KPaulCook 12-25-2002 06:46 PM

Is AMA and World supersport boring??? I don't think so.
Using your logic than AMA 600 supersport would be boring but it is not. Every bike save the Ducati is an inline 4. You make a good point about two strokes but their dirty exhaust doomed them. I just think the rules should be 1000 cc not restrictions on cylinders weights etc. In fact I think every AMA catagory should only limit cc nothing else. MotoGp is almost like that and you see V-5s inline 4s triples and V-4s. So I disagree that everything would settle on one engine configuration. Look WSB was a joke cause the Italians ran the series that is why Ducati dominated and HOnda had to build the RC51.

dwr461 12-25-2002 07:05 PM

Re: Yes I am a bigot. A bigot in favor of quality and value
I never said it failed KPaul. But by the very fact that they have had a recession and had lay off's proves that they are not superior to anyone else. I do not feel that Americans are necessarily superior, nor the Germans, Chinese, Italians, or any other people based solely on their ethnic origins. I have never made such a claim. But when I struck you too close to home you ran for your mental homebase. I have made a valid point so you rather than be adult and introspective you call me the very thing you are. I don't own a HD or drive a cruiser. But what bikes we chose to ride was not ever the crux of my arguement. That was your was of dodging the question. KPaul do you believe the Japanese people to be superior to the rest of the world? Notice I said superior. I feel they are equal to any other people in the world not better. They screw up sometimes too.

GogglesPaisano 12-26-2002 03:57 AM

Re: The Atrociteurs' Dream
You misspelled "imminence"...

That shallow pose is your own, reflected in that Vietnamese chrome air cleaner your stout and hearty man-friend bought at full retail.

The plaintive whine is coming from your wheel bearings, or maybe it's you sounding out the longer words in your next post.

Harley's have never defined what "real men" and "real motorcycles" are all about. They're a business like any other, and the fact that poser idiots tattoo the company name on their pale and pudgy (stout and hearty? come on...) flesh just means there are a lot of lame people seeking identity wherever they can find it. I'm sorry the fat kids get picked on, but really, growing up and buying a Harley won't erase the pain. Lie to yourself all you want, but until you make peace with your childhood no amount of conchos will ease your suffering. It's okay to be heavy. You don't have to lash out at the ones who buy bikes for function rather than an ego trip.

I know it's a long road ahead 'Highway', but maybe with a little help we can rebuild your self-esteem and get you on the path to wellness! Eventually even your small dingus won't matter to you and you'll ride for pleasure rather than to appear tougher than the hurt little boy we all know you are.

Help us help you, Highwayman. Together we can make a difference!


Buzglyd 12-26-2002 04:46 AM

Re: Is AMA and World supersport boring??? I don't think so.
I wouldn't say 600 Supersport is boring. Neither is Formula Extreme or Pro thunder for that matter. But, they are support classes. The fans turn out for Superbike so it's up to the sanctioning body to come up with a rules package that allows all manufacturers to compete with what they sell in the showroom.

MotoGP has different weights for different engines (2-3 cylinders, 4 or 5, 6 cylinder has a higher weight). No one would argue that more cylinders typically make more power so in order to create a greater diversity of machinery, organizations skew the rules to create that diversity.

You analysis of the "Italians running everything" is a bit simplistic. World Superbike was incredibly close and exciting this year. Perhaps it wasn't on your bike of choice (your bias against 2 cylinder machines is duly noted) but the racing between Edwards and Bayliss was awesome. Shouldn't all of the Japanese manufacturers (not just Honda) been able to exploit the 2 cylinder advantage with their advanced engineering capabilities rather than let a tiny Italian firm dominate?

The Japanese (except for Suzuki) gave up on the 750cc motorcycle. Mladin won three years in a row on one over the mighty twins. The reason is that 750cc bikes don't sell anymore. All the squids want litre bikes now even though the aforementioned squid would be much faster on a 750.. Manufacturers don't like to race what they can't sell (which explains the demise of the two-stroke in racing).

Personally, I would like to see and hear a variety of machines when I attend a race. Laguna Seca is a blast as you listen to the different exhaust notes fly by (I like inline 4s too Kpaul). Heck it was even fun watching the Harley race and I'm bummed it's gone even though it wasn't competitive.

See you at the races!

Pain_Seraphiin 12-26-2002 05:29 AM

Re: The AtrociteursÂ’ Dream
Good stuff HighwayMan, but could you use smaller words. Your prose is way too challenging for me.

Someday, I may just have to sell my seamless, hightech Honda VFR800 and by an antique. But I do respect your writing.

Once again, Kudos :)

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