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Old 12-02-2002, 06:24 AM   #31
Buzglyd
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Default Re: Quit trolling with the same old flame bait

There's no doubt developing a modern, air-cooled motor is quite an engineering challenge considering smog and noise regulations. Ducati seems to have done a fine job with the new DS1000.



You might want to ask yourself, what presents a greater engineering challenge: developing something from a clean sheet of paper or modifying an existing (and perhaps antiquated) design?



Harley must continue to make 45 degree air-cooled pushrod V-twins. It's their heritage much like BWWs boxer. It's certainly not the best design configuration for a twin (it was originally developed this way to fit inside a bicycle frame). So the fact that H-D can make decent, torquey engines and according to my recent newsletter, meet 2008 CARB requirements, means they have met quite an engineering challenge, no?



Similarly, Ducati has done the same with the 90 degree L-twin. Air-cooled motors are part of Ducati's heritage as well. Plus, this motor will go into the Multi-strada and if you're going to take something into a non-paved environment, having a bunch of radiator hoses, etc. hanging around is probably not the best design.



BMW GS1150 owners are fanatical about their bikes. It's not my cup of tea but it can hustle down a twisty road as fast as you can on your ZX6.
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Old 12-02-2002, 07:27 AM   #32
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Default Re: 2003 Ducati SuperSports Reader Feedback

has anyone heard what the valve adjustment interval is for the new 1000cc engine? It has been one of the biggest complaints about ducatis, the frequent need for valve adjustments, and it isn't even mentioned in any of the write-ups.

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Old 12-02-2002, 07:34 AM   #33
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Default Re: 2003 Ducati SuperSports Reader Feedback

I just can't see paying that kind of money for a Supersport. It is basically the same bike that has been around for quite some time in the new uglier package



If I was going to get one, I would find one of the old style SPs with low mileage and some nice mods on it for 5-6k. They are out there. Any money left would be used on engine and suspension mods, resulting in a better looking and performing SS for less money than a new one.



Although I am interested to see what a good tuner can do with the 1000 DS engine.
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Old 12-02-2002, 08:17 AM   #34
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Default Absolutely

Remember, too, that the first vehicle to successfully cross the sahara was an air-cooler. By cooling directly from engine to air, you have a much higher delta T (the difference in temperature from one to the other). With a waterpumper, let's say you're riding around in 120-degree temps and the motor is say, 220. The thermostat will probably like to keep the water at roughly 180ish. so you've only got 40 or so degrees between the engine and the coolant, which is not really enough to shed a bunch of heat efficiently. And then another 60-or-so degrees between the collant and the ambient air, which is, again, not really enough to shed heat really efficiently. But in the same 120 degree temps, and an air-cooled engine, the temp. difference is roughly 100 (in this example) which is in the "now-we're-talkin'" range for transferring that heat off of the engine.



From what little I know about water-cooled engines, they seem to be engineered to work well within a very narrow temperature range (the range within which, as you say, the different parts made of different metals will be perfectly expanded into one another.) The thermostat is working, not so much to keep the bike cool, per se, as it is working to keep the bike's temberature *right here*. Maybe that's why radiators have been getting bigger lately on mainstream bikes: they need more surface area to clear more heat in order to maintain the bike within an increasingly narrow range of optimal operating temp. so they can further increase hp.



So yeah, water-cooling equals tighter tolerances, and more hp ffrom a given displacement, but I wonder if you can make the argument that, all things being equal, air-cooling is *better* for everyday steet bikes which have to operate in a much wider variety of conditions that race bikes and such? Also, I wonder if you could argue that the slighty greater "slack" between parts is better for durability even if it gives up some on efficiency?



Just a theory. I actually have no clue. Oh, look a the time...
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Old 12-02-2002, 08:19 AM   #35
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Default Hmmm...

Let's see, in the late seventies I was...um...born.



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Old 12-02-2002, 08:27 AM   #36
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Default BMWG1150s

And they go for 300k miles *routinely.*

Hell, man, they're not even considered broken-in until ten grand.

what water-cooler (other than the Wing) can say that? And that's not one bike, that's the whole R-bike line. (Dunno 'bout the K bikes.)
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Old 12-02-2002, 08:32 AM   #37
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Default Re: 2003 Ducati SuperSports Reader Feedback

I downloaded the owners manual from the Ducati site. The first adjustment comes at 1000km (620 miles) and then every 10,000km's (6200 miles) after that. Not too bad.
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Old 12-02-2002, 08:45 AM   #38
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Default Re: Quit trolling with the same old flame bait

Air-cooled engines may be limited in some senses. But, heck, aircraft radials used to put out some 2-3 thousand HP.



Now if I could just adapt a Wright Radial into an old CX500 frame.......
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Old 12-02-2002, 08:51 AM   #39
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Default Re: 2003 Ducati SuperSports Reader Feedback

same-same, 10K kilometers... 2-valvers are easy, tho, and tend to stay adjusted...

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Old 12-02-2002, 09:15 AM   #40
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Default Re: Ducati is like Harley but this time it is a good thing.

More likely, the 750 was showing very little additional value in comparison to the 620.



In '02, the only year where a Monster 620 and Monster 750 were both available, the 750 only made 4 HP more at peak. Hardly worth the additional $1500 in MSRP to most buyers: Time to make that mid-range model worth its asking price.
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