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Old 11-17-2002, 04:18 PM   #31
Buzglyd
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Default Re: 916/996/998 vs 999 Debate...

It does look better in person but it's still not flowing like the previous bike or the MV Agusta. Park one next to an MH900E and you can definitely see the similarities. It's like a modern version of that bike rather than an updated 916.



I think I'll wait a year or two for the prices to drop on a nice used MV Agusta, put some of those Ferraci carbon organ pipes on it....purrrrrrrrrfect.
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Old 11-17-2002, 05:54 PM   #32
itchface
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Default Re: Ducati 999S Track Test

If the maladies I mentioned are as a result of "business decisions," then OEM execs need to take some remedial business school classes. The flaws their products exhibit turn a lot of newbies off to our sport, make otherwise brand-loyal riders switch camps, and reflects poorly on their engineering prowess. I think you're far too generous in exonerating motorcycle manufacturers. Besides, most of the flaws evident on new bikes are easily cured, but factories don't seem to sense that we care enough about them to try harder.
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Old 11-17-2002, 05:56 PM   #33
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Default Re: aerodynamics

Think maybe they tested one set of bikes with no rider and the 999 with a guy in the previously-tested-to-obtain-optimum-aerodynamics tuck?



It could happen...



I see SuperTitty garnered the new nickname "Skidpad"... I guess "human dzus fastener" wasn't meant to stick..



See, he makes a quarter turn and the fairing lowers come flying o... Ahh, the hell with it... Too wordy.



I think you're on to something with this aero discrepancy though...



Hey Ducati! What gives?!
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Old 11-17-2002, 06:49 PM   #34
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Default Re: Passionless

Along the line of the old XLs, I have been known to raise some hell (and the front end) on my ancient XL600. That thing rules on tight bumpy roads



You are right though, as irritated as I am by sport bike poseurs, it really has to be a drag to a The Highwayman type HD rider and be surrounded by corporate weekend biker dorks on their shiny new me too Harleys...
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Old 11-17-2002, 06:57 PM   #35
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Default Re: Passionless

Assuming we are talking a mountain road with actual 55- 85 mph curves, if he is a very good rider comfortable with high cornering speed, he will have no problem humiliating a decent rider on an R1 who is more timid about leaning way over and skimming footpegs. I have seen hard ridden SV650s humiliate plenty of people, even on fast roads, as long as there are corners in them.



Even "lesser" bikes are good enough that rider skill is still the single most important ingredient to going fast and well. I rather like the idea of blowing the doors off R1's and the like on my "slow" TL1000S. It happens more often than not these days...
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Old 11-17-2002, 07:22 PM   #36
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Default Re: Passionless

If this "clueless" rider had been on a new Honda with similar new leathers, would you have felt as "satisfied"? Or was it his "income" you feel you conquered? Just a question.......
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Old 11-18-2002, 03:35 AM   #37
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Default Re: Ducati 999S Track Test

Now you're beginning to cook !! The ability to include excellent video as well as downloadable artwork is a major difference between yourselves and the 'old tech' world of magazine publishing. Keep it up and even innovate further.



I won't get into the arguement over the aesthetics of one model over another. I'll just leave it at this. A Mustang 5.0 is heaps quicker off the line than my Ghibli but personnaly Scarlett, I don't give a damn.
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Old 11-18-2002, 04:14 AM   #38
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Default Re: aerodynamics

Without quick access to specific numbers, I'll throw this memory of a Kevin Cameron column in: It probably has something to do with absolute drag numbers (Cd) combined with frontal area to produce a total drag figure (Cx). Because of the small frontal area - probably less than one square meter, compared to two or three for most cars - they're able to make the drag figure seem really impressive without necessarily owning up to what the air is really doing.



Lies, damned lies, and statistics.



Oh, and by the way, another vote for the 916/999-355/360 analogy. I miss both of the older ones every time I consider their replacements. (Especially if the sense that there's not much real improvement holds true.)
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Old 11-18-2002, 05:11 AM   #39
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Default Re: aerodynamics

His CD figures are wrong. You need to include air density (rho) and acceleration due to gravity (G) in the equation to calculate drag in pounds of force:

drag = V squared * A * rho * CD / G

If you check out the units, it's obvious:

(f*f/(s*s))*(f*f)*(#/(f*f*f))/(f/s*s)=#



His relative estimate of the Hayabusa versus the ZX12R is correct because rho and G drop out in calculating the ratio.



1) Power to weight doesn't count when computing top speed.

2) CD is unitless.

3) Ducatti's CD squares with Aprilias estimate for their old GP 500 bike: 0.24

4) Halving the CD increases top speed by 1.4, the square root of 2.



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Old 11-18-2002, 05:43 AM   #40
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Default Re: Passionless

Yeah, I routinely humiliate open class bikes with the sv650 - in the mountain twisties, that is. Now get this: the two fastest guys out there are on thumpers - a KTM Duke and a MZ Skorpion - (not to mention the guy on a Rotax with knobbies) - but they're both very talented AFM racers. Granted, most of the corners are 70mph or less with very little straight between them.

I take it you've also never been to a track day at Streets of Willow - I've seen numerous liter bikes wooped up on by better riders on lesser bikes. Rider skill makes all the difference - so I guess that since most of us ride bikes that exceed our own skills, most of us are poseurs...
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