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Old 10-31-2002, 03:19 PM   #81
windsurfer
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Default Re: Great Arguments for Stupid People, Part II

Mr. Burns,

Are you trying to ***** us off? Please refrain from your pursuit to be an *******. I'm not paying to read about your opinions on politics, race, gender, or hurt fealings. Please continue to right about the pursuits of two wheeled vehicles and details that would be useful or even entertaining. That is what we are paying for.

You are a fantastic writer. You should be writing about the finer things in life.

Best regards,

Dave Hess

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Old 10-31-2002, 04:36 PM   #82
Eric
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Default Re: Great Arguments for Stupid People, Part II

Abe,



I think the other post pretty much takes care of the socialist side. I'll try to answer some of the other questions. Oh yeah, the quote I pulled was from one of your earlier post -- you actually did distinguish me from those other liberals, though I do agree with many of the groups you mentioned.



1) Liberals often decry certain bills as unconstitutional -- they are probably just not the same bills that some conservatives believe to be unconstitutional. Numerous liberals recoiled at the Anti-terrorism legislation passed under the Clinton administration, and even moreso at the further erosion of Civil Liberties under the Patriot Act. In fact, good liberals were joined by good conservatives in groups like Judicial Watch. Other good liberals (like myself) very much dislike the President and Ted Kennedy's education bill -- I personally can't stand national education standards. Again, this is one that crosses party lines.



2) Many liberals dislike Democrats who portray themselves as so centrist that there is no meaningful difference on most issues between their position and that of their Republican opponent. Several of my friends and I joke that the races here in TX are between pro-choice and anti-choice Republicans, not Republicans and Democrats. This is why I respected Wellstone. I often disagreed with him -- he was more liberal than I -- but he had the courage to be liberal. Just as Kennedy does.



3) Many, if not most, liberals were very disappointed in Clinton. Here was a very smart guy by all accounts who had an incredibly ability to digest information and learn very quickly, and he signed some of the most repugnant bills to liberals. You look at the things he signed, and they were not truly liberal the majority of the time. Even more depressing was that the guy through away what could have been a decent presidency on an affair that he lied about. No liberal was proud of that.



But, and here's where I go after the conservatives, very few Republicans go after Newt for delivering divorce papers to his wife while she was in the hospital with cancer. Few Republicans bash the wonderful former mayor of New York for bringing his mistress to public property -- the mayor's house, or for parading her at this year's new year's celebration. Why not? Yes he is open about it, but does that make it less moral?



4) Equality of opportunity vs. outcome. Many (not all liberals) still discuss it in terms of equality of opportunity. Where we disagree with many conservatives is in the belief that we have equality of opportunity in this country. Yes, many people do escape poverty or the inner city slum. But we also know that it is a lot easier to get ahead if you are born with financial means. I don't think affirmative action is perfect, but then neither is sticking our head in the sand and arguing that everyone has the same opportunities. Do you really think our current president would be president if it were not for his last name?



5) Taxes and big government. Give me a consistent argument for tax cuts and I will disagree with you, but respect you. I respect the true libertarian line -- the one that also calls for massive cuts in defense spending, privatization of highways, schools, etc. I disagree, but respect the consistency. I can't stand conservatives like Bush who switch in a matter of months from, "we have to give back the surplus, but we will be fiscally prudent," to "temporary deficits from tax cuts to stimulate the economy are ok," to "let's make the temporary tax cuts permanent." Liberals do the same thing on other issues; that doesn't make either side right.



6) Finally, look at the types of pork that went to Republican districts in the last budget. Cut that out then talk to me about fiscal responsibility.



7) People who agree with me but can't defend my positions ***** me off worse than people that disagree with me for good reasons. People who disagree with me for illogical reasons make the most angry. A friend of mine wants missile defense to protect from Sadam's missiles. The longest range missile under development -- not deployed -- has a range of about 1500km. Oppose Sadam if you want to, but be smart about it.



To summarize: liberals always stand up and question Constitutionality -- just not on the same things you do. But wait, sometimes it is on the same things you do. True liberals hate politics and the dumb things liberals say as much as you do; but we also hate the dumb things conservatives say to.
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Old 10-31-2002, 05:35 PM   #83
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Default I am sure the Highway has the right thing to say

Excellent essay Burns. "When you find yourself growing red, flustered and at a loss for words in any argument, you simply attack the person inflicting the logic instead of trying to refute his argument. What could be simpler?" Been there done that especially here at MO. I've been trying to clean up my act but I called someone a racist the other day when he said the Japanese rarely have an orginal thought. Least my heart was in the right place. But racist was the wrong thing to say probably. I am sure the Highwayman knows what to say.
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Old 10-31-2002, 05:47 PM   #84
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Default Nothing like

Nothing like firing my 12 guage and riding my Ninja to make me appreciate the USA. Nothing like Ballard drivers to make you appreciate California drivers.
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Old 10-31-2002, 06:29 PM   #85
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Default Re: Great Arguments for Stupid People, Part II

Hey JB,



I think I disagree with you politically, and I do find it easier to enjoy reading works from people I indentify with; but whatever your political leanings... how can more people on this site agree on issues that will HELP motorcyclists?



Off-road areas are disappearing. (stupid riders, stupid environmentalists, both?)



Street bike insurance rates. (bend over, youch!)



Helmet laws, loud pipes, blinding headlights, stunt-riding on the street, hicks that can scare the heck out of you by pulling up beside you and scream stuff at you like they're going to kill you - knowing full well they can just run over you if you don't like it - unless you're armed with a .429 caliber Desert Eagle velcro-ed to the thigh of your Aerostitch... crap.



There are a lot of motorcycling issues that need the services of a fork-tonged mo-fo like yourself! So what are you messing around with taxes and socialized medicine? Jeez, those arguments get plenty of attention already!



Thanks!

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Old 10-31-2002, 07:47 PM   #86
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Default Re: Nothing like

Hah hah! True that. As a Ballard denizen, I want one of those license plate holders/bumper stickers that reads "Pray for me, I drive in Ballard."
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Old 11-01-2002, 03:19 AM   #87
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Default Re: Great Arguments for Stupid People, Part II

I agree! Wait, no I don't. Damn, I just can't decide!
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Old 11-01-2002, 03:51 AM   #88
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Default Re: Great Arguments for Stupid People, Part II

Down Hatch!! Heel!
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Old 11-01-2002, 04:20 AM   #89
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Default Re: Great Arguments for Stupid People, Part II

I am very surprised by all the negative reactions produced by this article. Just because it’s written doesn’t mean you have to read it. There is more to life than just motorcycles (but not much). Please continue to write about whatever you want Mr. Burns. Just don’t forget to include motorcycles every once and a while.
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Old 11-01-2002, 04:32 AM   #90
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Default Re: Is this still a motorcycle web site?

Totally agree, Will.



However, the particular article in question was more about argument styles and not politics. It was non-moto, but pretty well written and illustrative of John's considerable education.



It was rather funny, but I'd prefer to read about moto when I go to motorcycle.com. I come here for lighthearted belly laughs about fun stuff and moto-info.
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