Go Back   Motorcycle Forum > Motorcycle.Com General Discussion > Motorcycle News > Old News > MO Reader Feedback

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-31-2002, 12:10 PM   #61
Abe_Froman
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 878
Default Re: Great Arguments for Stupid People, Part II

I love to argue too, that's why I do this------



I agree that both sides dismiss the other out of hand, although I think the reasons for this are different. I think that lots of the intelligenstia, media-type, beltway liberals simply cannot fathom that someone could have a differing opinion, therefore they are incredulous that someone would disagree. I think Conservatives often dismiss liberals quickly because the mission of the modern political liberal is to appear non-liberal ("centrist" has become highly fashionable these days.) To that end, they cloak their ideology in euphemisms and obfuscations to deceive the average voter and confuse the issue. Socialist theory becomes "social and economic justice". Equality means equality of outcome, not equality of opportunity or equal rights. Ignoring the constitution becomes "saving it" (a'la Bill Clinton.) This is because they know they wouldn't be voted for en masse if their true political leanings were known. Tom Daschle or the late Paul Wellstone would never come out and say they are socialist, but socialism was exactly what they are advocating. Perhaps even in their own minds they don't think they are (were) socialists----but those that debate them must look at the practical outcome and consequences of their platforms, not their intentions. To that end, their political ideologies must be identified, and that entails painting them with a label. Conservatives have been resigned to pick through the liberal haze and identify their ideas with a particular ideology and then contrast them with their own views (this is mainly a problem with liberal Democrats, but other liberal politicos have been known to resort to the same tactics.)



JohnnyB doesn't go this far, he just paints those that disagree with him as dim-witted idiots who don't get "the joke". Read his past articles. He makes some vauguely socialist theory or argument, but when a critic identifies them as such and responds, he will deny that he or his statements are socialist-----as if somehow none of us are smart enough to understand the intricacies of his brilliance.



Eric, I believe that I said that I wasn't neccessarily referring to you when I made the statement about the 60's liberal movement. If I didn't, then I apologize and I'm belatedly saying that now.



The United States is far, far removed from socialism as it existed in Russia or WW2 Germany or any number of other totalitarian regimes. However it is closer to some western european countries. It is also much, much closer to socialism than we were 200, 100, or even 50 years ago. We have gotten used to a kind of soft, non-totalitarian, bureucratic socialism in America (still offensive to true conservatives and constitutionalists like myself.) Ideas like social security (geez, it's right there in the name), welfare, universal health care, etc. etc....are socialist ideas, plain and simple. No, we haven't gone wholesale socialist yet, but there are plenty of people on the left who are working to that end.



To those liberals or leftists or democrats or whatever that recoil at the label "socialist", I ask: how far is too far? At what point is the burden on taxpayers too high? When do those on the receiving end need to be told "that is all"?



As an aside, when will a democrat/liberal/leftist (or even a "centrist")stand up in the house or senate and say "I don't care what the good intentions behind this bill are, I don't care how much good it might do, or how little it might cost----it's unconstitutional because article X clause X says it is, therefore I won't vote for it"?



Abe_Froman is offline   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links Remove Advertisements
Motorcycle Forum
Advertisement
Old 10-31-2002, 12:14 PM   #62
FrankS1
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 156
Default Re: Great Arguments for Stupid People, Part II

Ya left one out, Burnsie: The folks who proudly display stars&bars. They're probably at least partly aware that they are displaying their cultural and biological inferiority for all to see. But they are proud of it, nevertheless, just too gutless to wear white sheets.



Oh well, where would WWF and NASCAR be without 'em?
FrankS1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2002, 12:21 PM   #63
rsheidler
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,459
Default Re: Great Arguments for Stupid People, Part II

>>Bob in NJ writes: "Just goes to show MO will print anything Burns writes. "



And this Bob in Washington, D.C. says: "Thank God for that."<<



And this this Bob in California says "ditto"
rsheidler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2002, 12:30 PM   #64
elitegeezer
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 11
Default Re: Great Arguments for Stupid People, Part II

Highly entertaining article Burns. I am sure that you'll gleefully ignore those who only want motorcycle content.

Many of us subscribers enjoy the occasional essay. Presumably many of us are also acute enough to figure out that an article titled "Great Arguments for Stupid People, Part II" probably isn't going to be about the your last brake caliper rebuild.

So to all those uppity-seppo-middlist-white-picket-fence-mending-couch-sitters: Don't read the article if you aren't interested.
elitegeezer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2002, 12:53 PM   #65
rsheidler
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,459
Default Re: Great Arguments for Stupid People, Part II

>>Tom Daschle or the late Paul Wellstone would never come out and say they are socialist, but socialism was exactly what they are advocating.<<



I can honestly say that I knew very little about the Late Paul Wellstone, but this interpretation seems somewhat at odds with the views expressed by many of the conservative pundits, whose comments were that they respecetd his specifically because he never tried to hide his agenda, to deny that he was a "60's style liberal" etc. As an example, I cite the following from Mickey Kaus (www.kausfiles.com) from October 25:

"Wellstone didn't pretend to be for reforming welfare while secretly gutting reform in the statutory fine print, the traditional Washington "make-believe" approach. He didn't seek a middle ground that would offend the fewest number of people and guarantee his reelection. His openness and honesty constituted a temporary crack in the evolutionary laws, a quirk in which the proven Darwinian traits that make for success in the competition for national political prominence somehow didn't obtain."
rsheidler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2002, 01:08 PM   #66
hogeye
Founding Member
 
hogeye's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Elgin, TX (near Austin)
Posts: 10
Default Re: Great Arguments for Stupid People, Part II

F. Scott Fitzgerald said "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to function."



Thanks, Johnnie B.! Keep on writing!



hogeye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2002, 01:08 PM   #67
Viffer-dude
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 44
Default Re: Great Arguments for Stupid People, Part II

I doth quote from James B.: "be it left-wing liberal, right-wing extremist, ".



This immediately shows Mr. Burn's true political bent. JB, why not say, "be it left-wing extremist, right-wing conservative,"? No, you would not do this, because to you right-wingers ARE extremists, and left-wingers ARE well-intentioned liberals.



Burns, I can appreciate your sharp wit when it comes to writing about bikes, so please stick to that subject. Your attempt at political neutrality is admirable, but your actual leanings are thinly veiled.
Viffer-dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2002, 01:16 PM   #68
ValkBandit
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 473
Default Re: Great Arguments for Stupid People, Part II

only a right wing extremist would have interpreted it that way ....
ValkBandit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2002, 01:42 PM   #69
Viffer-dude
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 44
Default Re: Great Arguments for Stupid People, Part II

You bet. At least I admit it!
Viffer-dude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2002, 01:47 PM   #70
merv
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 170
Default Re: Great Arguments for Stupid People, Part II

What I like about this no matter what the topic, I guess I can roughly assume it is motorcyclists expressing an opinion. Go to other sites talking politics and anybody could be there. So at least here we have a common interest to start with and that has relevance as far as I can see as to why JB would post this stuff. Besides, being a foreigner from downunder I am intrigued at times to hear your views from the US.
merv is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off