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View Poll Results: Yeah, so Yossef's in Italy on the 999 and I'm not. Thus, I:
Hate that stinking bastage! 19 9.05%
Hate you all (on general principal) 16 7.62%
It's all good, I'm happy for him 30 14.29%
I hate the guy that's happy for him! 6 2.86%
I'll trade my sister for a plane ticket and a Duc 66 31.43%
25 11.90%
11 5.24%
37 17.62%
Voters: 210. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-21-2002, 06:03 AM   #101
sarnali
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Default Re: Original Thought

I think the japanese strong point is to take an existing design and refine it down to a gnats ass, you could argue that there really are few new ideas because most "innovations" were tried by the twenty's and thirty's At that time the metal working technology, alloys, and electronics weren't able to take advantage of the idea's themselves, along comes honda in the late '60's w/ an inline four, Benelli I think had that one first, Yamaha monoshock? try Vincent in '30 something, Telescopic forks? try BMW, the key to japanese bike sucsess was to apply existing design's, with new technology and materials in one package that didn't leak or vibrate to peices, things as simple as splitting the case's horizontaly instead of verticaly,hence no more oil leaks or actually balancing and matching componants in an engine instead of throwing them into a bin and grabbing what you need at random, there's nothing magic or genius about it, just attention to detail and common sense,I love Brit bikes myself, but they did it to themselves with shoddy work and *****-poor managment, Geoff Duke went to Japan and saw what was going on in the early '60's and tried to warn them back home ,but they ignored him, now you have market domination by the japanese and one Brit bike maker of any note, while Ducati,moto-guzzi and M-V had to deal with a sucsession of Italian governments policys, Harley had their own problems, cranking out dated technology and head in the sand managment, Japan Inc just stepped in at the right time and cleaned up.
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Old 10-21-2002, 06:18 AM   #102
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Default Re: 2003 Ducati 999 Reader Feedback

I though consistancy of though was a sign of a simple mind,, anyway he's right about one thing, That "jap-junk" attitude cost a lot of people their butts in Detroit and Coventry, and Milwaukee
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Old 10-21-2002, 06:48 AM   #103
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Default Re: Electronics innovation

Not mentioned in Yussef's review, but picked up in the paper press, is the fact that Duc has gone to data bus, not point-to-point wiring. OK so they didn't invent it, the B-1B, the F-16 and the Space Shuttle work that way (no point in hauling several hundred pounds of unnecessary copper through the sky or out in space), but just where, pray tell, is the data bus in the wiring harness on KPaul's green weenie?



When the Jbike dealers get the "latest and greatest" in control electronics, will KPaul start *****ing loud about how us mean people are knocking the Japanese for copying again?
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Old 10-21-2002, 07:13 AM   #104
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Default Re: 2003 Ducati 999 Reader Feedback

I agree, the bike may not be perfect for very large people, but for me, 53 years old, 5'7", 32" inseam, and 140 pounds, i find the bike quite comfortable (28 thousand miles on a 98 916). My complaints are the danged frequent maintenance, the costly replacement parts and the high weight of the bike - ride a GSX-R1000 to see the difference. My next bike will surely be a GSX-R since it has the most 916-like ergos but without the excessive weight of the 99X bikes.



But it's little surprise that a tall designer such as Pierre T. would want to "fix" the ergonomics. Too bad he didn't think to fix the weight, for as much money as the 999 costs ya'd think they would at least try to compete with the Japanese bikes. But no, they have to build a bike that is heavier than a ZX-9R (which are going for like 8.5K out the door in my area).



If only the Dixie Chicks were bike riders. They might change the name in the famous song about "Earl" to "Pierre". )
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Old 10-21-2002, 07:42 AM   #105
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Default Re: 2003 Ducati 999 Reader Feedback

Just got a 1996 740iL for about 20k, 12er. Had my 6'6" friend adjust the passenger seat to where he was comfortable, then sit behind the passenger seat. About 4 inches between knee and seat back. Try the 7....try the 7...
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Old 10-21-2002, 07:43 AM   #106
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Default Re: 2003 Ducati 999 Reader Feedback

The action shots put me over the edge. When I saw how small the 999 was beneath Yussef, I finally got it. I've always been one of the minority who likes the new looks, but it's the function that turned me over to the dark side. This is the first Ducati since the 1992 900 Supersport that I have wanted. It couldn't be my only bike. It couldn't even be my only sportbike, since I want a dependable Japanese sportbike for those hairy, pipe-dragging sport tours. But as a third or fourth motorcycle, one only used for Sunday morning outings on the twistiest tarmac in a three-state area and one that will see occasional track days, this is the one.



Now I just have to figure out a way to triple my income so I can afford a third or fourth motorcycle that costs almost half what I make in a year in my current position.
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Old 10-21-2002, 09:32 AM   #107
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Default Re: Finally an intelligent post.

You're a geisha girl.
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Old 10-21-2002, 09:52 AM   #108
ErricZ
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Default Re: Give me a break racist

I think it's cars, dude, I only see a resurgence of UJSs on the market (Universal Japanese Sportbike) to point where they are ...



80's Supra = 80's 944

LS300 = BMW 3-Series

350Z = 911 Carrera

Gallant = 5-Series



And that's just a few I feel like digging up from my mental archives ... the only props that go to Japanese car manufs is that Ford made the last rendition of the Mustang look like a Mitsubishi.



Oh and what the hell is the new Q45 supposed to be? An alien on drugs? Inifinity lost their minds ...



Wait, isn't this a motorcycle forum?!?!?
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Old 10-21-2002, 10:00 AM   #109
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Default Re: Give ME a break KPaul

'You named 3 original street bikes Honda produces. Now, I can name 13 of their current models that are copies of existing designs and were labeled as "inferior V twins" by Honda in a public statement in the 80s. They are the:



VTX 1800

VTX 1800 Retro (Retro to what??)LOL

VTX 1300

VTX 1300 Retro (Retro to a Harley???) LOL

Shadow Spirit

Shadow Sabre

Shadow Aero

Shadow ACE 750

Shadow Spirit 750

Shadow VLX

Shadow Deluxe

RC 51 (Ducati ripoff and "inferior" V-twin)

Superhawk (another "inferior" Vtwin and Ducati knockoff)



That looks like 13 ripoff or inferior designs that are made to look and perform like Harleys and Ducatis. You mentioned 3 bikes. Looks like the "rarely an original thought" sticks real nice.'




Ok, so I followed your advice and went and took a reading comprehension class this afternoon. I came back, read your post again, and I still can't make heads or tails of it.



I'll try to use my newfound reading skills and go piece by piece and maybe I'll see the error of my ways. It appears that you listed a large number of bikes made by Honda (including the RC51, to which I originally took exception.



Your next sentence is:



'That looks like 13 ripoff or inferior designs that are made to look and perform like Harleys and Ducatis.



Now maybe they taught a different English language in my class than they do in some others, but it seems pretty clear to me that you just called the 13 bikes you listed 'inferior'. Now a quick visit to www.m-w.com had informed me that the very first definition of inferior is 'situated lower down' So my powers of inference are telling me that you are saying that the bikes you listed are 'situated lower down' than some other bikes, which would seem to be Harleys and Ducatis.



My contention is that the race victories of the RC51 suggest it (at least) is in no way inferior to any Harely or Ducati product. Moreover, even suggesting that is complete nonsense. Even employing the awesome power of reading comprehension, that statement still stands.



Now what you could be trying to say (which would be different from what you did say), is only that Honda once upon a time called the v-twin an inferior design, but that is really a point which must be seperately debated. Now that may or may not be true, but regardless is a totally different thing from saying that the actual bikes Honda produced are in any way inferior to other bikes with a similar (even if) inferior engine design.
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Old 10-21-2002, 10:12 AM   #110
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Default Simple is as Simple does

We Americans need to learn from the sucessful Japanese companies. As for as simple minded, the statement that "Japan only knows how to copy i.e. are not inovators" is a simple minded racist generalization . Go look at the electronics industry and come back and tell me the Japanese aren't inovators.
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