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john 09-28-2002 06:44 PM

Re: 2003 Indian Reader Feedback
When well yall do a write up on the new Confederate????? 130hp/140 ft lbs at the tire!!!!!!!!!!!

Truly original design (yeah yeah dont mention the disagreement over who designed it) great power and great components.

Why, for 20 or 25 none of these bikes, be them harleys or indians, come with nice components? Well i must admit i am surprised the Indians came with Brembos, but why not Top Quality forks and shocks, Brake systems, me that is where a lot of a bikes value comes from......I would pay a little extra up front if it saves me from having to buy and then spends tons uprating components....

But maybe that is why people buy spend money....i never understood.....for cruisers or sportbikes or anything, why people spend so much making a bike better, and do nothing to improve their riding. horrible. I think that is the Hardcore matter what they ride.....if they ride to become a better rider.

KPaulCook 09-28-2002 07:59 PM

Re: Hey now..More blame for Canada
Yep I work a couple Canadians. They have the dry English like wit mixed with folksy friendly demeanor. I always give em crap about CBC, Tim Hortons, their lax immigration laws allowing terrorist, etc and how they still have the Queen on their money. They fire back with Big Hair jokes about the Super Mall in Auburn, how Americans can't read, write and have no knowledge of geography and history. Its fun. I always think their are laughing at me when I turn my back sneaky smart bastards.

redlegduke 09-29-2002 03:21 AM

Re: 2003 Indian Reader Feedback
What Indian, Excelsion-Henderson, and Victory have never seemed to understand is that all the bikes they are seemingly intending to emulate started life years ago as bikes intended to be ridden. Here, specificially, I'm saying that the orignal Indians, the bikes that put Indian on the map, were meant to be modern, reliable, economical, comfortable, easy to service, good handling, competitivley priced, and supported by a dealer network. These Indian things here appear to be none of the above.

What I have said for some time is that a manufacturer that wants to enter the cruiser market should go by means of the touring market. Sounds backward, I know, but here's why: To produce a bike that will perfom as a competent tourer means largely, that you will have a machine with the qualities I mention above. The old Harleys and Indians were originally meant to be ridden. You can't really ride one of these new Indians in any meaningful way, can you? I mean, without a chase truck, in the independant way that many go long-distance touring with basically just clothes, stove, tent, and gas money. The way the original Indians were meant to be ridden.

My recommendation to Indian would be to take your "proprietary" S&S motor, put it in a new frame and running gear in such a way as to produce two models: a full-boat, top-of-the-line tourer with comfy seat for two, hard bags, no-turbulence fairing, radio, and cruise control; and a "stripper" tourer based on the full-boat model.

Even better would have been to design the motor from scratch (or, because motor development costs a mint, from maybe a small, suitable car motor - remember the Munich Munch?) to produce a motor that will absolutely go the distance. The service record of large inch, air cooled, 45 degree, twins is well known as not something you can count on when you get far from home. Hell, barely across town or out of the county.

A manufacturer can sell a touring bike on something besides looks - it can sell them on qualities that endure. (All this factory-custom bike stuff is a two-wheeled equivalent to selling fashionable tennis shoes. There is no substance there.) It could even use the touring line to develop the styling cues of it's own look. That is what Indian did and what Harley did with their big bikes, (until the chopper-influenced Super Glide).

Following the path they are on will likely have them going broke real soon.


seruzawa 09-29-2002 04:41 AM

Re: 2003 Indian Reader Feedback
Yawn. If you are going to bash harleys then why don't you come up with something orginal?

Anyway, the main reason that reasonable people buy HDs is that they don't get burned to death at resale time.

Stupid is as stupid does.

seruzawa 09-29-2002 05:02 AM

Re: 2003 Indian Reader Feedback
Hey bro,

Don't look now, but if you check it out you will discover that several of these "Jap" bikes are produced in America with a greater percentage of domestically produced parts than ANY Harley. Can you say "Showa forks" or "Mikuni carbs"?

Real American, my butt. How long did you spend in the Nam?

seruzawa 09-29-2002 05:44 AM

Re: 2003 Indian Reader Feedback
With the current economic meltdown in the stock market and the resultant fluttering hearts of the boomers expect to see the bike market suffer. Stock portfolios are dropping like lead shot in a vacuum. This will result in rough times as the yuppie posers will freak-out and stop buying all these luxury items.

First to go will be the insanely overpriced offerings like Indian. Also expect high-priced exotica like Ducati to take a big hit. HD will survive because they've been careful not to build up too much production plant and have actually been planning for this eventuality. Indian has no such contingency plans.

The best thing about all this will be to see used HD prices drop back to pre-1990 levels. I like HDs but am unwilling to pay the ridiculous prices. I doubt that the near new prices for 15 year old HDs will hold up much longer. I may be in the market for a nice used big twin soon.

seruzawa 09-29-2002 05:46 AM

Re: Hey now...
I'll apologize to Canada when they apologize for William Shatner. Have you seen this idiot hawking his new book? What a putz.

Islandcomm 09-29-2002 06:51 AM

Re: 2003 Indian Reader Feedback
Precisely the point. His belief is that the wheel needs to be repositioned. Did you miss something?

BorgBiker 09-29-2002 07:32 AM

I bet they WISH they had a garage full of bikes.
Many people have posted to the effect that they think MO writers could put out new stuff everyday, if they'd just get off their butts and do it. I doubt it's that simple. I have a few points that might help:

1. If you think about the actual content of the print mags, you see many thinly diguised press releases talking about the new models too. The number of tests is always thinner in the fall; it's been this way for the last 20 years that I have subscribed to bike mags. They've tested all the current model bikes they can, and the new bike releases are available, so that's what they print.

2. Many turn to this site every day or so. Every few days we get something new to read. The print mags come out once a month (or every other, in a few cases). If you count the number of tests per month here at MO, and then count the number of tests at a print magazine, I bet it'd be about the same number. I would love to see a review everyday, but I realize that one must go out and ride a lot to know what you're actually talking about when writing a review. These things take time. But I'd wager that we get AT LEAST as much in the way of actual content as we would in the print mags in a month's time.

3. I see less than 1/100th of the advertising here, which I like. I think MO's budget must be MUCH smaller than the print mag's budgets, since they have half the magazine filled with ads. And I bet the number of subscribers is much smaller here as well. MO seems to be doing as much or close to as much as the print mags with far less revenue.

4. I don't know how many staffers there are at MO, but I doubt it's half of the print rags. So each would probably have more to do than at a print mag. Obviously it's a different format, one that is more direct, and doesn't cost as much to produce; but that doesn't mean it's easy. But I'd love to find out for myself :)

5. I have seen a spell where there was nothing new on the headlines for a week, but after invesitgating a bit, I found an interesting bit I either missed or was new. After checking this site for over 3 years, I STILL find things I've missed. There's plenty to read here, when it's a slow day.

I get antsy too. I want a Z1000 review YESTERDAY. But it's not even out yet.

It is important that we let the JB and Co. know what we like and don't like, that makes it better for all involved. Things can ALWAYS be inproved, but I like the more professional writing now, and I think it'll get better as time goes by. WE SHOULD tell them what we like and don't like, but in a constructive way.

MrBear44 09-29-2002 08:49 AM

Re: 2003 Indian Reader Feedback
The Highwayman is just the guy who articulately kicks over the beehive, and then kicks back with a cold one and laughs his head off while everyone else predictably buzzes around in a fit for days.

IÂ’ll bet heÂ’s a lot less concerned about Harleys than most everyone else seems to be about the fact that someone might actually like them.

Taste in motorcycles is just like taste in food music, cookies, and the opposite sex. You like what you like, and no one is owed an explanation.

Buzz away.

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