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Old 08-27-2002, 11:03 AM   #41
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Default Vibration nation

The vibes weren't too bad at 70- the bad part was accelerating quickly to 70. It would get this weird harmonics pattern at a certain midrange RPM and send shudders up my spine. Oh well, the price to pay to ride a HARLEY...
\"I will not instigate revolution.\" -Bart Simpson
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Old 08-27-2002, 11:09 AM   #42
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Default Re: apples and oranges

That's pretty much what THIS test was. I only mentioned the bikes I did, because it seemed that the only thing they had in common was the v-twin engine and (roughly) displacement. I would've said that your arguement of different market and appeal for the 1200XL/VTR1000/TL1000r could just as easily be applied to the 883 Sportster and the Shadow-I just don't see them being shopped together.

If someone likes the look of the Shadow, they'd be more interested in the metric twins or certainly the HD big twins; if they truly wanted a Harley, then only the "bar and shield" would do; and if they wanted an open framed twin that handled well, one of the bikes I mentioned would probably be high on the list.

Sure, you could make the 883 into more of a cruiser, but these tests are pretty much run as they come from the factory, and IMO, the Sportsters aren't cruisers (although I think they're more practical).
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Old 08-27-2002, 11:13 AM   #43
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Default Re: Never mention list on a HD, said the dealer!

Pipes, jets, filter, jacked up setup fee,

a big lying freight bill, and a couple of

grand extra for the privilege of owning

the Harley! Yeah if I was looking for

a buget cruiser I'd prefer the $8 grand

oil leaking, vibrating, piece of junk, Harley!
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Old 08-27-2002, 11:18 AM   #44
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Default Re: apples and oranges

Come on, the TL is giving up 200 cc's, right?

Seriously, I never know how to categorize the HD Sportsters. They're faster and better handling than the Big Twins, but they're also taller, with shorter wheelbases, and untill the TC88 came out, the most technologically challanging engine the Motor Company had-much more like a standard bike.

Unfortunately, big clunky frames and archaic air-cooled twins do not make for a competitive standard in today's market.

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Old 08-27-2002, 11:51 AM   #45
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Default Re: Shadow 750 vs 883R Reader Feedback

Nice article. It is interesting that in the MO light cruiser shoot out done a few years ago the Shadow ACE 750 closely beat the 883R. Looks like the difference in Shadows (ACE vs Spirit) is comestic. Of all the Harleys the basic black Sportster is among my favorites along with the FXDX. I road the bigger Sportster a few months back and I felt it to be inferior to my friends bigger Shadow (1100 cc). I also felt the shaft drive gave the Honda a big advantage.
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Old 08-27-2002, 12:19 PM   #46
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Default Re: Shadow 750 vs 883R Reader Feedback

Good argument although I think there may be a flaw in your assumption that the primary purpose of a cruiser (or any motorcycle for that matter) will always be for riding.

Sadly I would guesstimate that the majority of motorcycle sales are made with personality enhancement as the primary purpose...and we all know how much discomfort people will put up with if they think it makes them look cool, exciting, independent or remotely more appealing in any way.

There may be many 'badass bikers' out there...but very few motorcyclists...who actually use their machine for the primary purpose of riding be it for transportation or simply the journey. Over the years I have found this is as likely to apply to the ass in the air contortionist ducatitsi in matching leathers as it is to the studs and fringes peanut skull crowd.

And I'd guess that if riding was the primary purpose for everyone we'd all end up with very similar machines - engineered specifically for the purpose and total enjoyment of riding...and conversely if we all shared the primary purpose of looking as badass and downright cool as possible...we might also all end up with similar lowslung chrome and confectionery paint fancies...maintaining and expressing our sense of individuality thru a catalog of bolt on personality enhancers...(hey wait a minute!)

BTW - I really did like the corroded darts in the eyes bit...quite inspired.
Alex - Pro Flasher
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Old 08-27-2002, 12:31 PM   #47
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Default Good Reading...

[b] MO doesn't have all the bikes all the time...neither do other journalists...so we aren't gonna get a shootout with all the bikes we think should be involved.

MO has an honost writing style, and more often than not, readers with criticism are more likely to give feedback than those with praise.

Happiness isn't getting what you want...it's wanting what you get.

I paid for the writing style.

(brain fart ain't lettin expound)
87 VFR700F2....naked by necessity
90 Honda NS 50cc....tiny crotch rocket with knobbies...7.2 hp?
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Old 08-27-2002, 12:33 PM   #48
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Default Re: Shadow 750 vs 883R Reader Feedback

They don't look much to me. However, go little cruisers.

I'm about to ride my little 1994 Vulcan (500 EN) 600 miles north to DC and back over the labor day weekend. It will be the third time this year, I can't say when I get there I'm as fresh as a rose, but fresh enough to make my baby happy!!!

I know, it's not a cruiser (same HP as H-D, half the torque!), but I don't think it shakes as much at 70 (or 80, or 90...!).

Like I said, long live small cruisers. If they only understood that some of us normal people like the cruiser look without a 10 yards wheelbase or 2 foot away footpegs and with a revving engine... Something with at least 70-80 HP, not much heavier than 500 pounds and veeery light on the pocket? Something like a Magna with a rear disk and bigger tank? Or a V-Max with better ergonomics? Is it that difficult, hell, if they brought back the old Magna, how many do you think they would sell?

Since they won't , how 'bout a SV650 engine in a cruiser frame? Better again, how 'bout a Kawi or Honda inline 4!!! Didn't they sell enough 1000 ltds? Come on, guys, let's give some kick to those things!!!
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Old 08-27-2002, 01:16 PM   #49
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Default Re: Shadow 750 vs 883R Reader Feedback

This is MOTORCYCLE.com, right? Cruisers are motorcycles, whether or not I like it. Besides, reviews of the latest squid mounts gets boring after a while...nice to see some different stuff. Pity the Harley wasn't fitted out with Storz Performance's street tracker gear, 19" tires, and ridden about on dirt roads...that'd be a hoot.

Now, about those scooters :-p
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Old 08-27-2002, 01:54 PM   #50
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Default Re: Shadow 750 vs 883R Reader Feedback

California 35 years ago? State of the art?

Scene: Any California coastal road, circa 1967, Sparley Hortster lumpity~lumping along in the dappled sunshine of a summer morning, competant rider pretending to be Cal Rayborn, dragging a peg here and there. (We didn't put our knees down in those days - that was Paul Smart & Jarno Sarrinen that started that trend!)

What's that sound bearing down on our intrepid Harley Hero? Black Honda Super Hawk, Akront alloys, Dunlop triangulars, factory rearsets, racing seat, long tapering black factory megaphones (a sound you can only imagine now), double-leading shoe front brake, 9000 rpm redline ---black & polished alloys flash past --- bye Cal, see ya at Alice's!

State of the art 1967!
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