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Old 08-29-2002, 05:17 PM   #151
seruzawa
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Default Re: Uh-Oh!.....

Uh, itchface, you are not the first person to "discover" how horrible Harleys are and then engage in a campaign of arrogant holier-then-thou posts for the purpose of enlightening the rest of humanity.



Give it a rest. There's absolutely nothing original you can say on the subject.
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Old 08-29-2002, 05:24 PM   #152
seruzawa
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Default Re: Uh-Oh!.....

So, what kind of bike do you ride?



Or won't mommy let you?



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Old 08-29-2002, 05:50 PM   #153
robb_millett
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Default Re: Shadow 750 vs 883R Reader Feedback

Well, I have to applaud your very thoughrough and complete rationalizations of your entrenched prejudices! I had no idea the windmill I was tilting against was so tall, or flailed it's sails around so wildly.



so, you win, dude! Preach it, brother! I guess I'm just not a-type enough to want to care about continuing...



one question though, by what mathematics does putting a rider on a bike lower it's center of gravity? This defies physics, in a very real sense..



Of course, it'd be really nice if you'd provide the weights and vectors to justify the math...though I can't imagine you will.



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Old 08-29-2002, 06:26 PM   #154
itchface
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Default Re: Shadow 750 vs 883R Reader Feedback

Emperor Hirohito to General MacArthur:



"Well, hell dude; if I'd known you were drop those atom bomb thingies on us I never would've picked a fight with you guys.



" So, fine, if it makes you happy--you win! I've got much better things to do with my time than to trade missles with you guys anyway. One question though, Doug; How do you get off killing a bunch of civilians just to win this little skirmish? Can you explain the ethics of that?



"I'd really appreciate it, D.M. But I don't imagine that you will."



You understand how chat like that could have resulted in another giant mushroom, don't you?



Anyway, it was nothing personal. I kinda' like debating; probably a little too much. Let's share some vitriol on some future issue, shall we?



Oh, and I never claimed that putting a rider on a bike lowers its COG. With the rider ALREADY ON the bike, where his or her weight is focused WILL impact the COG of the bike/rider package. Make sense?
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Old 08-29-2002, 06:30 PM   #155
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Default Re: Uh-Oh!.....

Who told you??? Have you been talking to my mom?



I've almost got her talked into letting me buy a Honda Rebel, so don't blow it for me!
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Old 08-29-2002, 08:31 PM   #156
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Default Re: Shadow 750 vs 883R Reader Feedback

HEY GUYS- I actually own & ride a ’02 Shadow Spirit. I know this makes little or no difference to the vast majority of the 155 previous posters in this comparo feedback, most of which either wanted to discuss something completely extraneous or have almost no direct knowledge of either of these bikes.



I don’t know if it’s germane to the “feedback” section, but I thought a few facts might be in order, since the MO “FLUFF” comparo didn’t include them~



Sportster FACTS-

1) The Sportster is basically obsolete, having first been introduced in 1957. Upgrades have been made periodically since then. The Evo engine is the same as it was when first out in ’86. Source: http://www.sportster.org/history/



2) ANY review of the 883 models includes a show stopper, only briefly mentioned as a minor concern, in passing, at the conclusion of your fluff story; The 883 models WILL VIBRATE YOUR FILLINGS OUT because they are not equipped with counterbalancing or rubber motor mounts, as are ALL other HD models. THIS FACT IS A SHOW STOPPER FOR ANY INFORMED POTENTIAL BUYER, CERTAINLY NOT A MINOR ITEM! Premature loosing of fasteners, and parts literally dropping off as you ride, might also be a consideration for the informed buyer.

Source: www.MCReports.com (This company can send you bound reprints of all known reviews/comparos of any bike in existence for a reasonable sum. I highly recommend it prior to a purchase decision!)

3) Whatever it may be, (perhaps a very obsolete “sport” standard?), the base model Sportster is not a “Cruiser”. There are many cruisers made by HD, all Japanese and several European makers; the Sportster is not one of them. A much better comparo of this R model Sportster would include the Honda CB750, Suzuki SV650, etc.



4)The upgraded R model Sportster has a much higher list than the Spirit 750; why didn’t you try comparing the more equivalent single front disc equipped and similarly priced model Sporty (without the custom wheels, pipes, blacked-out engine treatment, and other goodies on the higher-priced R model Sportster you used)? Your comparison, just based on price, is apples to oranges!





Spirit 750 FACTS-

1)This base model cruiser has the very same engine & tyranny as the very popular Honda ACE 750.

2)The basic design 3 valve, 2 plug per cylinder V-twin was introduced by Honda in 1983. After all these years, this design has proven to be super dependable, which is a buyer benefit. Most Honda cruisers use this same setup; I think Honda spends about $14 on engineering each v-twin cruiser model. All they basically have to do to build, say a 27% larger version, is to program the computer to increase the size of the relevant parts accordingly. With less than 40hp out of 750cc’s, Honda should be ashamed to shout “performance first” in ALL of their ads; they certainly aren’t talking about their cruisers, except for the bargelike VTX and the Magna.

3)All low end (of the price scale) cruisers are built to a “price point”. The manufacturers put lower quality parts in them so that they can make a higher profit. They have figured out that we American consumers will buy most of their products anyway! My OPINION, (NOT a fact) is that mother Honda has no more than $900 cost in each Spirit 750 it makes and sells. That’s a HUGE profit that Honda can spend elsewhere to improve all of it’s sport bikes every year or two, to keep up with the other manufacturers.

4) And then, the poor buyer is left to spend another $1500 or more to upgrade basic components like shocks, seat, tires, ergonomics improvements, etc. to make bikes like the Spirit 750 serviceable and more enjoyable to ride, especially over expansion joints, as Hackfu mentioned!



GENERAL OBSERVATIONS:



Most bikes can be modified somewhat to improve an individual’s ergonomic preferences. Usually not hugely expensive, but a better aftermarket seat can cost $350-$550, easy.



Sport bike fans have trouble evaluating any bike not in their “approved as cool” mental list. This article is a good example. To quote Hackfu,“the intense amount of chrome that was found on the Honda left a lot of onlookers covering their eyes.”

Give me break, will ya! I guess you never heard of the annual mostly HD mass gatherings in Sturgis and Daytona. The amount of HD chrome at these huge events is frankly mind numbing; each bike certainly averaging much more chrome than on the bargain basement priced, $6000 list, Spirit 750!



EVERY HD ARTICLE appears to be influenced by a “Stepford Wives” movie type of robotic recantation of HD investment benefits and HD allegedly higher than most trade in value.

I thought of a lot of things when bike shopping; however, these were nowhere on my list! I’ll bet they aren’t on hardly anybody’s list! We’re buyin ‘em to ride; not to make or save money on!



Sportbike riding squids have a lot of gall complaining about the cruiser’s general upright, feet-forward, seating position. And these guys ride laying down like a horse jockey, looking like they’re butt-humping their bikes~HHHHMMMM, so you REALLY like the usual sportbike position with all your weight on your wrists???????

I guess an ignorant rube like Dan Gurney wouldn’t know anything about stuff like this either; have you seen HIS new model bike, check out the seating position, will ya? Here’s Dan’s URL:



http://www.allamericanracers.com/all...ator_home.html



In person, new buyers will usually rave about everything to do with their ride; rarely critical, even though a design flaw or two in their new bike may be hurting them, etc. However, on an impersonal, stranger filled, internet forum, owners will tell the REAL story. Here are a few forums on these bikes you might want to look at:



For the Honda Spirit 750~



http://forums.delphiforums.com/Spirit750/start



For HD bikes~



http://forums.about.com/ab-motorcycles3/start



Safe riding to you all!

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Old 08-29-2002, 09:19 PM   #157
Swimwear_Pete
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Default Re: Shadow 750 vs 883R Reader Feedback

First off I have to say that I really enjoy MO and am also very upset when people gripe about the obscenely low subscription cost.



I have been reading MO for awhile now and really enjoy all of the articles but I have always come away from the site feeling like something has been left out. Now I know what it was, CRUISERS! Please please please keep the cruiser reviews coming. How about a middle weight crusier comparo!



Please MO, balance out your already terrific site with more cruiser orientated content!
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Old 08-29-2002, 09:24 PM   #158
Mooner
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Default Re: Shadow 750 vs 883R Reader Feedback

O.K O.K as of my posting, you are the last and longest post yet. But hey, good post. Very honest. Although I find the "butt humping" position comfortable (I have convinced myself that I am man enough and comfortable enough with my sexuality that I can say something so stupid, hey whats your problem, get off my back, anyway) Your point is clearly a "to each his own" deal. It is refreshing (yet somewhat dissapointing) to hear a guy bash his own bike so much. By noticing the problems you have so much, does it make you like the bike any less. BTW I own a '78 750 CBF. I know what I really like in a bike because of the numerous bikes I have spent time on. This motorcycle represents none of those traits, except in the most primitive ways (but it will beat H.D.'s, ha, ha, nevermind, defeats my purpose). What I'm trying to get at is: I'm not sure I will ever get rid of it. Its not the first bike I've owned, nor the newest, oldest, fastest, but sometimes you just get attached to those damn two wheeled contraptions.
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Old 08-30-2002, 02:31 AM   #159
bandito1200
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Default Re: Shadow 750 vs 883R Reader Feedback

What did you expect from an overpriced

antique?



MJB

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Old 08-30-2002, 03:11 AM   #160
badsac
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Default Re: Shadow 750 vs 883R Reader Feedback

Ah yes. I knew I'd get a few takers.
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