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Old 08-20-2002, 03:22 AM   #61
mconlon
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Default Re: ''Helmet or Thick Skull'' Reader Feedback

...actually I wear my helmet because its way cool. Ususally I put it on with my gloves and full leathers, use a towel for a cape, stand in front of the mirror, breathe heavy, and with my best James Earl Jones voice, say, "Join us! There is power in the Dark Side!"



My boy thinks it is the funniest thing he's ever seen; my wife thinks I'm a dork.



But I'm free, free to ride, free to make a fool of myself in my own home... and not get hassled by The Man!
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Old 08-20-2002, 03:35 AM   #62
mconlon
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Default Re: ''Helmet or Thick Skull'' Reader Feedback

Geez, look at that, now MO is infringing on my God and government-given right to free speech... There must me some automatic no-no word censoring software built into the system? That should read as a legitimate, non-offensive phrase: pus*y-footing.
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Old 08-20-2002, 03:49 AM   #63
twister299
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Default Re: John Burns: an exercise in contradiction

Hear, Hear, you are 100% correct the Federal gov. will say that it is a state issue and tell you to talk to your state Reps. Realistically most states could not afford to thumb their noses at Uncle Sam. The first thing that needs to happen is to make it a Federal Crime to extort the states, then there needs to be a movement to consolidate laws across the country. Why should something be legal in Florida and illegal in California??? That makes no sense. The funniest thing is that California has always been the land of Open roads and freedom, and Florida where everyone knows your business and wants to make IT against the law. (T-backs in your own back yard for example). Now we can ride helmet less and you can't. We can get a conceal firearm permit and you can't. Go figure. I spent 10 years in law enforcement and I came to one conclusion. There are too many laws and no one has time to enforce them all. I went by the simple idea that if it looks wrong it has to be illegal, so stop that guy and them look it up.

Riding a bike without and helmet just doesn't look wrong. BTW we don't have to wear a helmet on a motorcycle but kids under 16 do on a bicycle. Like I said, Go figure.

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Old 08-20-2002, 03:55 AM   #64
NortonVFR
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Default Re: ''Helmet or Thick Skull'' Reader Feedback

Of course, John is correct that life is not fair. Helmet laws are a good example of this truism, since the underlying motivations are dislike of bikers and tax revenue. It's also true that we need to pick our battles and focus on the issues that are really important to us - ensuring the availablility of 200 MPH sportbikes for example. So, should we just accept this government interference and move on? I don't think so.



Helmet laws are not the only example of vehicular oppression in our society. Seat belt laws and unnaturally low speed limits are also oppressive. These laws have one thing in common - the State has a financial incentive to oppress you. As we all know, money is the root of all evil. It can even corrupt the legal system by incenting legislators to outlaw perfectly rational and ethical behaviors. Although it may be prudent to wear a helmet, buckel up or drive slowly, it is not unethical to forgo these things. Which is precisely why these laws generate so much tax revenue - people will continue to make rational choices, even if its illegal to do so. No just society should seek to outlaw reasonable, ethical behavior.



When you get in your car in the morning to drive to work, what is the probability that you will have an accident on that particular trip? Infintesimal. If you are motivated to buckel up by fear of an accident, then you are motivated by an irrational fear. The technical term for this is "Phobia". Forgoing the seat belt is a perfectly rational, ethical and healthy choice. Your Mom may insist that you put on your seatbelt, because mothers are supposed to be motivated by irrational fears. However, in a free society, the Government is not your mother.



Of course, over your life time, the probability of an accident may be quite high. However, confusing statistics and ethics is one of the greatest falicies in our society. When considering death or injury statitistics always remember one overriding truth - there is a 100% probability that you will die. Accident statistics are not about death, only about the timing of death. How you live is at least as important as how long you live. A life without risk is often a pretty dull life. A free society grants individuals the right to make choices about risk, as long as they are not placing others is jeopardy.



Finally, I wanted to address notion of "the cost to society" of irresponsible behavior. If our goal is to reduce this cost, then a rational society would go through the following process:



- List all irresponsible behaviors and their cost

- Rank them by the total cost to society

- Use society's limited resources to eliminate the most costly behaviors.

- Ignore the behaviors at the bottom of the list.



If we did this, the costs of irresponsible bikers would rank near the bottom of the list. Obesity, drinking, smoking and other irresponsible behaviours enjoyed by the vast majority of Americans would rank near the top. If we really want to reduce medical costs, let's outlaw fat people. That's were you will get the biggest bang for the buck.



Should we oppose helmet laws? Sure. We have to draw the line somewhere. If we don't fight them over helmets, they may come back for our Big Macs.











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Old 08-20-2002, 03:58 AM   #65
yzf1070
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Default Re: ''Helmet or Thick Skull'' Reader Feedback

I don't drink, but you don't see me whining about paying social security to all the people with sclerosis of the liver due to lifelong alcohol use. And I would wager that many more of our tax dollars goes to them than to any helmet-less crash survivors. It's as simple as this, there are costs that go along with living in the best country on earth. I don't even think I want to know the truth about how much crap my tax dollars pay for that I don't use, want, or probably even like. But the fact of the matter is that I will pay so long as I still believe that this country, flaws and all, is still the best in the world. Don't you people see that they are using the most powerful weapon in their arsenal against you? Your own greed! Don't be blinded by the propaganda. How much do you really think those helmet-less riders who are unlucky enough to survive a crash cost you in comparison to all the government waste like the national helium reserve!? Or maybe the huge tax loopholes for mega corporation's executives who happened to fund the current parties’ campaign. Wake up people it's slight of hand on a global scale. "Nothing up my sleeve". JB you claim that all this time could be better spent on legitimate legislative concerns, I say your right! So why don't you and all the other "But I'm paying for your behavior!" crybabies, stop whining about the .0000000018 of a penny you spent on all the injured helmet-less riders last week and start worrying about the hundreds, or thousands that went elsewhere.
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Old 08-20-2002, 03:59 AM   #66
CheezSorce
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Default Re: ''Helmet or Thick Skull'' Reader Feedback

There is no logic in the argument, if we take what appears to be logic and principle we should be able to apply it to all situations and make it work. Until we have a defined model life that is entitled to 100% support when in need we should not pick on anyone society. Drivers of cars would go close to eliminating head injuries if they wore helmets when driving, but we don't make them. Many diseases are caused by bad diet or the consequences of bad diet and lack of exercise and they still receive the benefits of health insurance.



There is no logic in the system, numbers rule, minority groups are held to a higher standard than the masses. As a minority group we will be required to demonstrate our argument in a socially acceptable way. We will not win by being overtly in the face of the masses and showing them how stupid they are.



The likelyhood of death in a motorcycle accident is double that of a car from recent statistics, with that knowledge we can decide if we wish to take at least some precautions. If we insist that all riders wear helmets then it would be good to see all car drivers wear seatbelts and helmets but it won't happen. Imagine getting your 70 year old Grandmother to put on her helmet.



We all want a system that allows us to make our own responsible decision, you just know that we will not all agree. If we base everthing on the cost of the individual to the rest of us then I beleive the statistics will show that not wearing helmets is not such a high cost. But the value that a family would place on having a lost one at home is never measured in statistics. We have children so that we might leave a leggacy, what will they think of our decisions.



Where can we find an honest statitian to reveiw all the data objectively. For me I'm wearing a full face until someone demonstrates to me that I would be better of without it.
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Old 08-20-2002, 04:09 AM   #67
robb_millett
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Default Re: ''Helmet or Thick Skull'' Reader Feedback

yeah WHOOO! Preach it, bruthuh!!! Kin ah git an aaaayyyy-MEN!
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Old 08-20-2002, 04:09 AM   #68
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Default Re: ''Helmet or Thick Skull'' Reader Feedback

Public school edycated, aren't you?
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Old 08-20-2002, 04:16 AM   #69
robb_millett
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Default Re: ''Helmet or Thick Skull'' Reader Feedback

no no no, the congress represents us crazies, and proposes the laws we think we want at the moment, and the senate balances that supposedly by beiong able to take a longer term view (that's why the senate has 6 year terms, and the congress has two year terms)...the judicial branch makes judgements based on those laws, as well as reviewing them for constitutionality. all three are suposed to balance each other. I think.
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Old 08-20-2002, 04:16 AM   #70
yzf1070
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Default Re: ''Helmet or Thick Skull'' Reader Feedback

Eating fatty foods is stupid. Drinking alcohol, even socially, is stupid. Snow skiing is stupid. Drinking soda is stupid. Driving fossil fuel vehicles is stupid. Having individual means of transportation is stupid. Scuba diving is stupid. Owning a TV is stupid. Making clothes in more than one color/style is stupid. Crossing the road where there is no crosswalk is stupid. White water rafting is stupid. Having sex is stupid.





Everything is considered stupid by somebody.
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