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Old 08-13-2002, 09:29 AM   #91
KPaulCook
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Default Honda is correct about V-Twins (inferior) Even Ducati admits that

Interesting.[*]Maybe they learned they had to respond to a customer demand for V-Twin cruisers.[*]To defend Honda, I would say that a 45 degree V-Twin is probably harder to develop into a world class power plant than a inline 4 or a V-4,5 .[*] In WSB I think Honda recognized that outside of a rule change for inline 4 displacement, the only way to compete with Ducati was to create a V-Twin superbike.[*] Watch for Honda to discontinue RC51 with the rule change. Look for a new WSB from Honda would be based on their V-5 MotoGp bike, which dominated MotoGp this year.[*]Even Ducati has abandoned the V-Twin in favor of a V-4. for MotoGP
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Old 08-13-2002, 10:00 AM   #92
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Default BMW maybe overpriced but compared to Harley

BMW may be argueably overpriced compared to Japanese competition but compared to Harley, a BMW is a steal. BMW's also in general handle much better. From BMW owners comments on this site I can appreciate why folks buy BMWs, longevity, durability, appropriateness for long distance touring. But those are not the reasons why people buy Harleys right. I just can't get over my latest trip to the Harley Dealer to see the new Buell Firebolt and V-Rod. In the Firebolt's case they wanted 11,500 for it without tax and license. A new ZX-6R is under $8000 and is superior in every way. The VRod they wanted $ 20,000. Geez a Yamaha Warrior and Kawasaki MeanStreak are 10 grand.



So if you want to pay for something that lasts and handles long distance more power to you. I do admire how BMW owners keep up their machines. Here in Seattle you do see more BMWs then back in the midwest. Usually the BMWs I see are well taken care of, even the older ones.





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Old 08-13-2002, 10:24 AM   #93
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Default Speaking for squids. A lesson in Squidology

Us squids would never give this bike a second look man. It is not even remotely squidly. I agree with others most reasonable squids would get a used 600 or a new but older-design 600 like a Katana, ZX-6 (not R) etc.. The rest of unreasonable squids would just buy a brand new 600. In other words us squids want to go as fast as we can as soon as we can. Unfornuately for folks around us, it is not in our nature to wait/learn slowly. We squids think it won't happen to us cause we are better. Arrogant but honestly most squids think this way.

K. Paul Cook Professor of Squidology
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Old 08-13-2002, 11:30 AM   #94
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Default Re: BMW F650CS Reader Feedback

Am I the only one that wonders how it is that BMW makes three of the top 5 ugliest bikes on the planet, yet stays in business?



They also make (IMHO) two of the ugliest cars, the M Coupe (I think that's what it's called, the coupe based on the Z3) and the Z-3.



How?
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Old 08-13-2002, 12:41 PM   #95
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Default Revolution

The problem in the American motorcycle market today is that there are basically 3 types of bikes you can buy- sportbikes, cruisers and road hogs. These come in varying shapes and sizes but all follow the same cookie cutter principles as do their riders. The cruiser crowd is the boring middle America pick-up truck crowd generally (Harleys included), and the sportbike crowd is the 'look at me, I'm cool' crowd. Then there's the over 40 Road Hog crowd who drive huge bikes because they have to haul their fat asses and their fat wives around on the back. Variations exist, I understand, but I don't believe I'm far off.



I don't want to be in either crowd neither socially nor mechanically. And lets face it, motorcycling is a very social activity. And I think I speak for a lot of the under 30 crowd who love to ride.



BMW is trying to do something monumental here by breaking down the rules of modern American motorcycling. There are almost no young riders these days and I don't think the industry is offering any bikes that are attractive to young riders. The Buell Blast was a try, but it flopped because is wasn't radical enough to break any barriers. The real trick to getting new blood into the motorcycle market is to produce a bike that will smash the old market and create innovation. (They moved the gas tank where???!!!!!)



Here's a good analogy. In 1992 people were being spoon fed the same crappy hair band music for years until Nirvana came along and kicked the crap out the old stagnant music scene. (That generation is now out of college and has money to spend too I might add.) People are scared of this bike because it means that maybe there's a new generation that might be taking over the marketing and changing the dynamics of the motorcycling future. Gasp!!! Shreik!!!



BMW is trying, but I don't think they're going to make it for 1 reason. $9,000 is waaayyy too much for this motorcycle. I don't think it will sell well at all in the US, but if this bike was half the price it would be a serious thorn in the side of the status quo and the rest of industry would have to respond. I can only hope they keep trying.
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Old 08-13-2002, 01:23 PM   #96
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Default Re: Damn! Lookit all the comments!

where you live junior?
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Old 08-13-2002, 01:42 PM   #97
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Default Re: BMW F650CS Reader Feedback

Things I like about this bike:



Upright ergos, reasonable weight = comfortable around town and for daily commuting

Real suspension and ABS = safe

Belt drive = low maintenance

Single-side swingarm and sticky tires = cool looking from certain angles



Things I'm not thrilled about but could live with:



"unusual" styling could grow on me



Things I don't like about this bike:



Heavy looking exhaust

PRICE



I'll agree with previous comments that this is a bike I'd consider if it were $3,000-$4,000 less, but it's really overpriced at $9,000.



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Old 08-13-2002, 06:23 PM   #98
ErricZ
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Default Re: BMW F650CS Reader Feedback

Um, how does one logically compare an F650CS to a V-Max? What crack are you smoking and could you bring some to New Jersey?
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Old 08-13-2002, 07:17 PM   #99
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Default Woa dude!

Interesting Theory. However, to call this bike a revolution is a little steep don't you think. I beg to differ about your 3 crowds thing. There is more than 3 at least out here on the West Coast.[*]Yes there is the sport bike crowd but close to it is another group that rides new naked bikes like Ducati Monsters and Triumph Speed Triples. These riders are prodominately under 30.[*] Then there is the whole Suzuiki SV650S and SV650 cult/group. Check out the websites, http://www.svrider.com/ and http://www.sv650.org/, for riders of this great Suzuki. It is great to see the custom stuff like pipes, lower fairings, etc these guys put on the SV650. These guys again are mostly under 30.[*] Then there is Sport-Touring crowd which you failed to mention. These guys are over 30 (most ex-squids) and tend to ride BMWs Honda STs, and Kawaski Concours and the like. I'll be here in a few years I'm sure



So see there is more out there than Harleys, Goldwings and Ninjas. I think this bike will have much less impact than the Blast. Which is to say it won't make into the Gugenhiem. No one is scared of this bike pal. If it gets more folks riding then everyone here I'm sure will cheer the thing on. I think you are right about a new generation for bikes but wrong about which bike will set the tone. Besides Germans are really not known for setting styles (too quirky). Most likely the bike will come from Italy but maybe a U.S. styled Japanese bike.
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Old 08-13-2002, 07:52 PM   #100
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Default Cruiser weirdness.

Some guy on the web is suppossed to have put together a streetable bike with hubless rear wheel. I will try to cough up the URL. Alleggedly it's made from parts of helocopter rotor bearings and cost like 10k or something.



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