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DurangoKid 06-20-2002 03:28 PM

First Post

wwalkersd 06-20-2002 04:03 PM

Re: Honda ST1300 Reader Feedback
Hmm. The FJR is lighter, more powerful, more comfortable, doesn't have those **** linked brakes, and costs at least $1500 less. Is there any area in which the ST1300 beats the FJR? Hmm, maybe in over-100 mph cruising, for which we here in the US have so many opportunities.

I think Honda's got a little tuning-fork-shaped problem here.

Alan 06-20-2002 04:27 PM

Re: Honda ST1300 Reader Feedback
torque peak looks like 6,200rpm not 3,200...

ats1911 06-20-2002 06:03 PM

Re: Honda ST1300 Reader Feedback
Ah, but will you be able to buy one? Call me silly, but I was a little put off by the suggestion that I should write a non-refundable check for $500 for a bike that I've never seen and had never been reviewed in the US.

This doesn't show a strong commitment on the part of Yamaha. Can you say, "Orphan?"

KPaulCook 06-20-2002 07:19 PM

Excellent, Excellent
Great writing Lord Burns. Good mix of techincal details and rider impressions. Love the parts about the engineer (next year). The backseat perspective was also a welcome addition. For me this bike is about 20 years away for me. I would probably look at the new Kawa tourer first, then the Yamaha and last the ST. I have a friend in the market for something less than a Goldwing, I told him to look at your site. Thanks again for an entertaining read, Sir.

Van 06-20-2002 08:09 PM

Re: Honda ST1300 Reader Feedback
More comfortable? Where'd ya get that? The Honda has a larger fairing and greater wind protection, to go with a quieter electric shield, adjustable seat ergos and V4 engine smoothness.

Areas where the Honda beats the Yamaha:

1-Build quality

2-Luggage capacity (35 litres per bag vs 30 on the Yamaha)

3-ABS option

4-On the fly adjustable headlight

5-A shock that won't have the headlight pointing at the sky when loaded two up, due to the Yam's too soft shock.

6-A truly adjustable preload for the shock, vs the Yam's two set settings.

7-Much better electric windshield

8-Three year unlimited mileage warranty, including Roadside Assistance for three years, vs the Yam's one year warranty which doesn't include Roadside Assistance.

9-Unique V4, vs yet another I4

10-Adjustable seat height

11-7.7 gallon gas tank vs Yam's 6.6

12-Adjustable instrument back lighting

13-Ambient air temp display

14-Easier valve adjustments (though more frequent)

15-Stereo option

16-Honda parts availability, vs Yamaha's

17-Availability this year, vs Yamaha's lack of availability for anyone who doesn't already have their deposit down.

18-Yamaha's next batch of FJR's (the ones beyond the presold first delivries) will NOT include the hard bags as standard.

That's just a few areas where the Honda reigns supreme over the Yamaha, off the top of my head...

jodiesel 06-21-2002 12:38 AM

Re: Excellent, Excellent
That was a REAL impressive blow job you just gave there.

rvfrules 06-21-2002 12:47 AM

Re: Honda ST1300 Reader Feedback
Being both a fan of Honda and V-4s -- I ride a '99 VFR -- I wanted to see Honda kick butt with the new ST1300, but on the basis of the MO review it seemed like they've come up short, just as they did on the new VFR. Way heavier than the FJR, less power, much more expensive.... At the ripe old age of 39, I'd definitely put my money on the Yami, which seems to cut a perfect compromise between comfort, tourability and performance. Maybe I'd give the Honda a look when I turned 50 ;-)

cyclesteve 06-21-2002 01:39 AM

Re: Honda ST1300 Reader Feedback
I'm on my way to the Hoot today. I hope to try the FJR, ZZR and the ST. I own an ST 1100 now and am looking for a replacement. I am a Honda man as a whole, but Kawi and Yam seem to be more in the price range and sporty feel I was looking for.

I think the back seat perspective was great. I have bikes for me, but a bike like this is my 2 up bike. Finding how it works for her arse means alot.

The part about her reaching around made me LOL. Burns you are a jewel. I'd love to spend some time burning some of that illegal contraband from the helmet. If you are in the Chatt tn area. Lets go ride GA 60 stay at TWO and twist one up.


High_Plains_Drifter 06-21-2002 02:15 AM

Re: Honda ST1300 Reader Feedback
You do not have to worry about writing a check. They are not taking any more deposits until next year.

High_Plains_Drifter 06-21-2002 02:18 AM

Re: Honda ST1300 Reader Feedback
What is so new about their V-4?

PsychoBueller 06-21-2002 02:37 AM

Re: Honda ST1300 Reader Feedback
He didn't say "new". He said "unique". Some people are tired of the inline-4 drone and like something a bit more interesting. I suspect that's what he was getting at.

RockyMoto 06-21-2002 03:16 AM

Windshield bitching
What's the big deal with the lousy windshield? 90% of the factory offerings on sport tourers suck anyway, and you wind up replacing the damn things with a decent A/M one. While Minime denies this new ST is capable of dethroning the 1150GS as his "Beloved Best Bike of All Time", BMW's factory screen on the 1150GS's is THE absolute worst excuse of a windshield on any bike I've owned to date. Kawi's 'ol Concours windshield was one of the first items to get replaced, as are many (if not most) ST1100 enthusiast's screens. Big deal...ya' scraps the factory screen, get the best aftermarket one mounted on there (e.g. Rifle, AeroFlow, Givi, Parabellum, etc. etc.) and get on with the ride. If the windshield's the main complaint, it's not a problem. That's like *****ing about factory tires as a reason not to buy a bike. Just change the damn thing!

blackburd 06-21-2002 03:19 AM

Re: Honda ST1300 Reader Feedback
Been there, done that. (turned 50 some). All in all, I'd just as soon sport tour with my CBR-1100 XX.

jimmymac 06-21-2002 03:48 AM

Re: Honda ST1300 Reader Feedback
Maybe it's my age (closer to 60 than I wish) or lack of European riding experience but I don't quite get this category of mortorcycle. Speed? Lot's of stuff faster. Weight? 700 lbs vs. a Wing around 800. VFR at 600 isn't TOO bad. Comfort? The Wing will surely be more comfortable. Touring? Wing again. Touring at 110 mph? Where in the hell can you do that? You can't realistically go that fast for long periods of time anyway. If you have ever spent a fairly long period of time going 100 mph you know how tired that makes you no matter how great the ergonomics.

If I want to go fast for a couple of hours, would rather have an Interceptor or similar ride. In any case, I bet the Wing would be more comfortable long distance at high speed.

I rode the BMW's too (1150 and k1200) so I have some feel for this category bike. The only thing I like about these bikes is how they look. Maybe that's the whole thing? Image?? Maybe it IS my age.

Can't be function.

dwr461 06-21-2002 04:12 AM

Re: Excellent, Excellent
Holy crap that was funny

stogieBill 06-21-2002 04:13 AM

Re: Honda ST1300 Reader Feedback
Lisa's impression was a great addition to the article. If mama ain't happy, ain't nobody gonna be happy.

Overall, a good read with solid critical analysis. However, if speed and sport handling were my primary considerations, this bike would not be a contender. Fortunately, a smooth handling powerful bike with over 100 bhp, the promise of great mechanical prowess ala the ST1100 and modern good looks are also prime considerations for a new commuter/two-up sport tourer.

Van 06-21-2002 04:23 AM

Re: Honda ST1300 Reader Feedback
Didn't say this V4 was new (though it is), I said it was unique.

And it is.

Oh yeah, I forgot a couple other ways in which the ST beats the Yam....

19-Built in covered crash bars.

20-Pop off mirrors for tipovers, which also include integrated turnsignals.

21-Two fairing storage pockets, one of which is lockable.

22-Built in swing out center stand grab handle.

There's a good reason the ST weighs more than the Yammie. It's more of a complete bike, with many more touring features.

Captain_1 06-21-2002 04:42 AM

Re: Honda ST1300 Reader Feedback
Maybe itsÂ’ just me, but I find HondaÂ’s latest offerings somewhat lacking. Sure, they sport all kinds of new technology, but have taken the appearance of mass-produced PLASTIC consumer products devoid of passion. I love machines and make a personal connection with all that I own, 9 including 5 Hondas. I simply canÂ’t connect with HondaÂ’s latest and greatest.

rocket13 06-21-2002 05:05 AM

Re: Honda ST1300 Reader Feedback
Oh yeah,

Let's add Honda's recurring problems with fuel injection (see the Great Lump GL18), the 700+ lb. pork and Honda's reluctance to honor warranty problems. Build quality? If this porker is an indication of my late (but not missed) 2000 GL15, that's a joke. Buy and ride what you like, but if you're looking at sport-touring, I went with the FJR. Stereo option and ambiant temperature, adjustable backlighting?I'm sure the ST will be a fine machine but you may as well buy a Gold Thing, you're 3/4 there already.

rocket13 06-21-2002 05:10 AM

Re: Honda ST1300 Reader Feedback
This "orphan" has already exceeded Yammie's sales expectation in the USA by 2x and has been proven in Europe for nearly two years. I don't buy version 1.0 anything whether it's made by Honda, Rolls-Royce BME, etc, etc.

There's no perfect bike yet built so shake 'em out before slamming another brand. "Ride what you like and like what you ride"

rvfrules 06-21-2002 05:14 AM

Re: Honda ST1300 Reader Feedback
Yeah, I thought about that after I posted. Shoulda made it 65 :-)

seruzawa 06-21-2002 05:34 AM

Re: Honda ST1300 Reader Feedback
Seems like a nice bike, if a bit big and pricey. BMWs offerings are much more attractive to me.

What's the deal with the non-adjustable handlbars? It's not just this bike but aside from a few bikes which still use tubular handlebars it seems that most bikes expect the rider to fit the bike and make no provision for handlebar adjustment. This is "new improved technology"?

Van 06-21-2002 05:36 AM

Re: Honda ST1300 Reader Feedback
Individual anecdotal evidence aside, Honda will match their reliability record of their STs and Goldwings with any maker of any similar product, and easily win.

The EFI on the GL1800s I've ridden was spot on, as it is on the new VFR. This latest series of laser drilled twelve hole injectors seems to be working just fine.

As for warranty issues, again, Honda can pit their industry standard against any other manufacturer's, and again win easily.

Honda is well known in the industry for sweating the details more than any other brand. Case in point: The Yam's battery location. On a bike where electric accessories will most certainly be added, Yamaha went ahead and located their battery in possibly the worst possible place. Placing it way up front and quite high, on the right side of the headstock, not only makes for a ****load of weight right where you don't want it in terms of handling and feel, it also makes it unnecessarily difficult to attach electric accessories such as heated vests, gloves, etc...

You can be sure that the ST won't feature such a boneheaded design oversight.

The FJR vs the ST1300 is quite simple. Both bikes are far too heavy to be confused with real sport handling, they're both died in the wool large sport tourers.

The FJR has plenty enough civility and two up comfort, while emphasizing motor performance. The ST has plenty enough motor performance and handling, while emphasizing two up touring comfort.

I'm reasonably sure neither bike will disappoint its buyer, and they're both better than anything that came before them.

Van 06-21-2002 05:37 AM

Re: Windshield bitching
Yeah, those R1150GS riders and their windscreen issues, what a bunch of pansies!!


Van 06-21-2002 05:44 AM

Re: Honda ST1300 Reader Feedback
While I love the Goldwing 1800, the ST is different and in many ways better for the right person.

Around town, the smaller ST is superior, while still offering long distance comfort.

On the highway, the ST will always go further on a tank of gas, making it better for the Iron Butt Rally types.

In the twisties, the ST will simply run away from even the new badass Goldwing, and that still matters to many sport touring riders.

The ST costs over $4K less.

The ST at least offers a version with an electric windscreen.

Do much lane splitting? The Goldwing is barely passable, while the ST does so easily.

Like the saying goes, there's an ass for every seat...

JohnGeisz 06-21-2002 05:52 AM

Re: Honda ST1300 Reader Feedback
I have an ST1100 and other bikes and I can tell you, most of your list is BS.

ABS option... whooppeee

Electric Windshield... if you buy the ABS??

Parts avail??

Ah... Oh... Hmmm... Oh, I'm sorry Mr. Honda, I didn't recognize your handle. LOL

No flame intended.

JohnGeisz 06-21-2002 06:00 AM

Re: Honda ST1300 Reader Feedback
As a long time ST owner, I've been waiting for this bike for years... but I'm very disappointed.

I swore that if Honda didn't put the new model on a serious diet... I wouldn't buy it. Then I heard rumors the new one would be much lighter and I got my checkbook ready...

Then I found out the new ST IS lighter, but not much.

And in the mean time, I got a chance to ride a European FJR1300 in New York state.

Sorry Honda... my ST will go for trade on the first FJR my dealer gets.

JohnGeisz 06-21-2002 06:15 AM

Re: Honda ST1300 Reader Feedback
Van, Bro...

This one best manufacturer feeling of yours sounds a little like the Harley guys about their brand.

I'm sorta in the bike biz and I can tell you... every brand has it's strengths and weaknesses... and 95% of differences in warranty service is the dealer, and how good his relationship is with the manufacturer's regional reps.

Nobody would argue about the strength of a Gold Wing in it's class. It's tip-top. And I happen to think Honda dirt bikes have their strengths. But there are other areas Honda gets their butt kicked. Take a screwdriver to a Honda 919 and a Yamaha FZ1 and tell me the build quality is better on the Honda. Or a CBR vs a GSXR. No way.

The dealer makes a huge difference, and the rest of the difference is made up in which brand you feel most comfortable checking the tires on.

Don't get me wrong, I won't tolerate a bike that will leave me stranded, but for me, the length of the warranty doesn't mean squat if I don't like the way the bike feels.

Maybe the new ST will FEEL 100 pounds lighter than the old one, even if it's not. That would be nice.


sportbike_pilot 06-21-2002 06:30 AM

Re: Honda ST1300 Reader Feedback

I'm with you. I've owned a bunch of Hondas. They may not put all the cool stuff bells and whistles on their bikes that other manufacturers do, but they sure do build reliable motorcycles. I have never had any trouble with a Honda motorcycle or warranty items related to them. Maybe I'm just lucky but I've been incredibly well taken care of by Honda and their dealer network.

Case in point. I got some chips in the paint on my Blackbird (from doing a lap around the US and Canada that included many miles of construction zones) a couple of summers ago and my dealer got me a new set of bodywork out of it. I have never dealt with a company that seems as concerned about customer satisfaction and pays as much attention to detail. Nothing is ever good enough for them.

I've owned Yamahas too. I think that they are also exceptionally well designed and well built machines. In terms of bulletproof motorcycle reliability I believe that it's pretty much a Honda/Yamaha world. But their design philosophies are different. So between the two companies you have some good choices depending upon taste.

I think that both the FJR and the ST will attract legions of riders. The thing is I'd be willing to bet that the FJR will appeal mostly to people just getting into sport touring because of it's killer styling and sporting acumen. But I think that most experienced sport tourers in the market for these type of bikes will go straight for the Honda. And I think that very few ST1100 riders will consider anything other than an upgrade to the 1300.


sportbike_pilot 06-21-2002 06:51 AM

Re: Honda ST1300 Reader Feedback

Half of us out here are "sorta" in the bike biz. In what capacity are you "sorta?"

I have taken both of your screwdriver tests and I beg to differ. The FZ1 is pretty cool but I happen to like the 919 quite a lot too. Both build qualities are excellent and they offer different things to different folks. But the CBR vs the GSXR, now that's a hoot. Gixxers are very cool because they are ready to spank the world right out of the box but as the miles pile up Gixxers, in my experience, age more rapidly than CBRs. The last time I was into a CBR engine (after 35k miles) none of the valves even needed shimming. And it was making a ton more horsepower than new. Of course I'm at a little of a disadvantage in comparing that to a high mileage Gixxer because I can't find one.

I am well known in these parts for having never met a motorcycle I didn't like so please don't think that I'm putting down Suzuki's GSXR series. It's just that I think that their design goal is different than Honda's. Again, different strokes for different folks. When Suzuki wants to build a bulletproof platform (ala the SV650) they can do it too. But I believe that it's Honda's primary mission, with all of their bikes, always.


SeanAlexander 06-21-2002 06:58 AM

Re: Excellent, Excellent
Anybody hear a swallow?

runner00 06-21-2002 07:02 AM

Re: Honda ST1300 Reader Feedback
I think the sport touring category needs to be subdivided into those for two up riding and those for one most of the time. I'll bet the honda out does the new FJR if two up is desired. The sport bike category is mostly bikes

you really would not want to do two up riding

on. I still think the concours is a great value and I hope Kawasaki does not drop it.

Twisted 06-21-2002 07:34 AM

Re: Honda ST1300 Reader Feedback
You tell 'em, Van. Straighten those DS's out. Honda Rules!!


DialedIN 06-21-2002 08:30 AM

Re: Engine heat
Thanks guys for including a comment on engine heat. Living in south Texas, engine heat in a faired motorcycle is a big deal. My Concours heated me up alot till I put air deflectors on it, but my zx11 doesn't bother me at all. Of course that might be because I usualy ride the zx11 a little faster....

Steven_Verschoor 06-21-2002 09:09 AM

Re: Excellent, Excellent
Alright, you guys. I know KPaul has annoyed a lot of people, but I've never seen him post a mean-spirited personal attack.

Sure, his disdain for the "Gray Pony Tailed Brotherhood" is plain, but even this is not vicious nor directed at anyone in particular.

I think some people, Sean in particular, have done a good job of countering KPaul's opinions, eg, fuel injection and open and closed systems. Sean's post was very instructional. I learned a lot, and even KPaul acknowledged he'd learned something.

Such an exchange of knowledge is the best use of this forum. Keep it up.

In summary, KPaul does seem to be trying to lighten up. Give him a chance. And I don't think he's resorted to personal attacks, so why should anyone else do so?

Peace out, Guys.


KPaulCook 06-21-2002 09:21 AM

Re: Excellent, Excellent
Thanks. I honestly felt Burns did a great job of writing on this one unlike his earlier stuff. I am trying to clean up my act. But perhaps these guys have a Jerry Springer thing here i.e. you say to your friends you don't watch it but you really love it when some poor sap finds out his wife has been sleeping with his father/brother/sister/mother and he trys to punch out everyone on the show. Thanks again Steven.

rubin 06-21-2002 09:22 AM

Re: Honda ST1300 Reader Feedback
I, too, am a little underwhelmed. As a former ST1100 owner (twice) and current R1150RT owner, I don't get why Honda usually has the heaviest bikes in their class. The adjustable seat is a big step in the right direction, but the ABS blackmail on the electric windscreen is pretty slimy.

But not to worry, folks! A dealer friend tells me that Honda blew it big time and has arranged for delivery of only 500 of these bikes to the US this year, which is less than half of a bike per dealer.

rocket13 06-21-2002 09:29 AM

Re: Honda ST1300 Reader Feedback
And a seat for every ass. Some better than others (the other way around, too:)

KPaulCook 06-21-2002 09:34 AM

Re: Excellent, Excellent
LOL Hey I went and looked at your posts. This is by far your best: intelligent, thoughtful what can I say you must know something about blow jobs. :) On a different note I think you are all wet on the WSB and AMA 1000 cc thing. You give Eric Bostrom a factory Ducati or a Honda RC51 and he walks away with the AMA championship. It is both the shoes and rider. Being a mechanic you should know that right?

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