Go Back   Motorcycle Forum > Motorcycle.Com General Discussion > Motorcycle News > Old News > MO Reader Feedback

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-17-2002, 02:30 PM   #91
JKortegard
Founding Member
 
JKortegard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 4
Default Re: What Size Victory? 600? Openbike? Twin?

I think I would be faster on a track on a 600, but frankly, the torque and relative "couch" characteristics of my R1 are thoroughly enjoyable on the street.



You said it, Abe. For a dedicated track bike I'd take a 600 any day, but out in the rest of the world (which is rather large) I prefer to be on something with a slightly more couchy feel and more torque everywhere. I took my R1 on a 5200 mile trip last summer, which would have been a considerably bigger challenge with an R6.



Good article, folks. Thanks.
JKortegard is offline   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links Remove Advertisements
Motorcycle Forum
Advertisement
Old 06-17-2002, 02:30 PM   #92
wfowade
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 79
Default Re: A quote from MO about EFI

As a licensed pilot, aircraft owner and motorcyclist with both fuel injected and carb'ed bikes in the garage I need to comment to Mr. Cooks ignorance. Figure about a 2% loss in power up to about 12,000' AMSL (density altitude). After that, the power loss curve gets steeper/quicker. By the time you get to 15,000' half the earth's atmospher is below you. That is why trubo charged piston engine aircraft go so much faster-the air is thinner and there is less drag. Your normally aspirated engine will be wheezing badly by this point-whether it is fuel injected or not.



The change in airdensity is why I need to adjust the fuel mixture (lean it out) on the 180 HP engine in my Beechcraft. The power loss is real and results in the service ceiling of my Sundowner being just over 12000'. Fuel injection does not change this fact.



The fuel injected bikes do indeed lose power with altitude. And motocc is correct-the fuel injected bikes handle the altitude better but they still lose power.



I think Mr. Cook should reconsider his position.
wfowade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2002, 04:41 PM   #93
SeanAlexander
Founding Member
 
SeanAlexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Newport Coast, CA
Posts: 1,538
Default Re: A quote from MO about EFI

Dear KPaul,



Unbelievable!



What in all three pages of that PGM Fi article IN ANY WAY contradicts what I've posted? Do you have a reading comprehension problem?



Do you know the difference between "open loop" and "closed loop" ? (Answer: Closed loop is simply the addition of sensors on the exhaust side of a motor, which allow real time correction of the injection maps) Again... ALMOST ALL motorcycles are "open loop" injection. This means that they use pre-set maps to determine fuel metering, based on Temperature, RPM, Throttle Position, Air Pressure, etc... taken from the intake side of a motor. There ARE a few "closed loop" systems in use (Honda and BMW being the leaders). This means that they can double check the calculated mixture and make adjustments accordingly. This can have a small effect on the accuracy of the mixture, allowing even greater efficiency and lower emissions. "closed loop" is NOT a huge power booster. In light of the fact that race bikes and almost all street bikes are open loop, your asinine swipe at "Harley" for using "open loop" injection, serves to re-enforce your reputation as a loud-mouthed instigator, who does his best to prevent his arguments from becoming clouded by to many facts.



Furthermore: Fuel Injection IS NOT "Forced Induction". Fuel injection compensates for changes in density altitude and adjusts the amount of fuel injected accordingly. Fuel Injection CAN force more FUEL into an engine. It CANNOT control the density of the air in the intake charge. (Turbo & Super chargers are what can compress the intake charge FORCING air into an engine) Answer this questionÂ… all other intake parameters being the same, if the fuel injection system FORCED 3x the normal amount of fuel into the intake of an engine, what would result? (Answer: The engine would stall, due to a grossly rich mixture) It doesnÂ’t matter how much fuel you can dump in, if you canÂ’t also increase the air side of the mixture equation. The benefit of fuel injection at higher density altitudes, is that it maintains accurate proportioning of fuel to air. (Read: it LEANS the mixture as density altitude increases) This means that Fuel Injection runs cleaner and more efficiently than a carburetor that isn't jetted specifically for that particular density altitude. Turbo and Super charging DO allow for the maintenance of engine power (manifold pressure) at higher altitudes, because they CAN force more air into the intake.



You can argue all you want, but among other things, I am (like several other posters) a licensed pilot. These simple mixture, turbo charging and density altitude basics are taught all over the world in even the most rudimentary aviation ground schools.



My own gratuitous assertion: I am only 33 years old and neither an expert nor genius. I DO however, have a sneaking suspicion, that I have forgotten more about motorcycles and engines than Mr. KPaul Cook will ever know in his entire life.



Words to live by: Confucius SayÂ… "It is better to be thought a fool, than to open mouth and remove all doubt."
__________________
I thought I'd found true happiness in my personal bath body bar.... Then I tried DOVE! with 1/4 moisturizing cream!!!
SeanAlexander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2002, 04:45 PM   #94
SeanAlexander
Founding Member
 
SeanAlexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Newport Coast, CA
Posts: 1,538
Default Re: Prove me wrong

See a few threads up this topic. I believe I've addressed your FI questions there.
__________________
I thought I'd found true happiness in my personal bath body bar.... Then I tried DOVE! with 1/4 moisturizing cream!!!
SeanAlexander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2002, 05:33 PM   #95
KPaulCook
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,752
Default Re: If these bikes were women

Ahh Ricardo this is best post. I watched the Triple from afar. She beautiful and athletic ahh but I am not man enough for her yet. Her sister Daytona was pretty but has become like others. Now the Triple is the only beautiful one that has 3 hearts beating. You have good taste sir. Enjoy her and know that I too have gazed at her in awe in the parking lot.
KPaulCook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2002, 05:45 PM   #96
KPaulCook
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,752
Default Re: A quote from MO about EFI

I stand corrected. I apoligize. I also learned something in the process i.e. stick to electronics and computers (B.S. EE) and that I can learn a lot from everyone on this site even Burns. This why I had a problem with Thermo class huh. Once again I am wrong.
KPaulCook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2002, 05:51 PM   #97
KPaulCook
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,752
Default I was wrong and motoCG I owe motoCG an apology

I stand corrected. Thanks for the excellent post , I learned a lot. My mechanical engineering buddies gave me the same lecture as you and motoCG (only they laughed in my face and said you just sick to those computers kid). Thanks for a much more interesting example. Ya learn something everyday Of course I should of learned this back in college right. oops.
KPaulCook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2002, 05:55 PM   #98
KPaulCook
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,752
Default Re: Stopwatch Compensator

LOL OK OK I was wrong OK OK stupid squid kid does again
KPaulCook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2002, 05:59 PM   #99
KPaulCook
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,752
Default Re: What Size Victory? 600? Openbike? Twin?

5,200 mile on an R1 but but the Harley boys that live down the street (those bullies try to chase me home every now and then) say it can be done on a sport bike. Impressive.
KPaulCook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2002, 06:04 PM   #100
KPaulCook
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 2,752
Default She loves you Poser

I have to admit I tried to hit on your little Bandito in the parking lot. She would have nothing to do with me. She says she loves you Poser. I think my bike Honey and her were in the same sorority back in college and you know how those girls are.
KPaulCook is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off