Motorcycle.com

TheFox · 03-28-2002, 06:47 PM

First post, gents.

Wa'al, I'd say not bad. I'm very disappointed that the Kawasaki didn't make the test; I feel that it would have done well. I'm not buying any of these bikes nor would I ever consider one, so my opinion doesn't really matter (even to me) so I'm just going to give you a pat on the back and be on my merry way. Late.

BTW How did Hackfu get up front? And if he kicked so much tail on the Suzy how did he not vote it tops, let alone mention it in his write up? I mean, he said he wasn't scared at all...in fact, he said he felt confident on it...and from all the mags the vibe I'd gotten was that the Gixxer was scary. Even the pros said it. What gives?

--Foxy

minime · 03-28-2002, 07:07 PM

The Kawasaki was left out because we didn't have it in time and also because nobody thought it would finish higher than last place (this was mentioned in the Weigh-in for this story that was posted a few days ago). And after riding one today (it belonged to another magazine who is voting it last in their shootout, by the way) we more than ever stand by our initial words.

As for Calvin, he was sent out to the front under the premise that John and myself would pass him as we thought it'd make great video (this is in the second paragraph of the story). As for why he didn't vote it tops, it's because (as he says of the Yamaha in his Unwanted Advice): "it was the easiest for me to ride. I didn't really need to acclimate myself to any aspect of its performance envelope... The R1 just worked."

Van · 03-28-2002, 07:16 PM

Entertaining read, nice summations of each bike's feel.

-GSX-R: Motor and stability get you there first, regardless, if a bit crudely in doing so compared to the other two. (Having ridden a few GSX-R1000s, I find it almost impossible to fathom how anybody could ever describe its handling as anything other than polished and honed to the finest point imaginable, so these two new bikes must be absolute handling bastards if they make the 1000 seem even a little bit crude.)

-R1: Coolest, best looking, most desireable, albeit neither the fastest, most comfortable or easiest to ride for most. Sounds like the throttle response on this one oughtta be made a law. What you ride if you wanna get laid by the top shelf strippers, while the GSX-R will at least get you laid by the ones working the Monday afternoon shifts. The Honda? Well, that smart, sensible girl with the great rack that you're bangin', the one who lives next door, she still COULD be a stripper, right?

-954: Finally, the real deal in middle weight handling allied with true litre bike punch. Easiest to ride, most versatile, sharpest handling, best brakes, most confidence inspiring (only to a point though, although that point is well beyond 95% of this readership's abilities and/or nad...) It's a bleedin' Honda, and finally it's pretty pissed off.

Still have the feeling the GSX-R will take the track marbles, if the track has room to stretch the legs of these things. Then again, the way they described the GSX-R stomping 'em with torque on tight corner exits, hey, maybe it won't need a wide open track.

Oughtta be interesting, though it seems the writing is on the wall that the GSX-R won't be allowed to win the comparo because of subjective reasons (and the fact that it's not in the best interests of the industry to have a year old bike beat the new pups in these comparos), even if in the end the GSX-R puts up the best numbers no matter how they test 'em...

One little side bar, as a Real World Shot O' Reality, regarding these magazine bikes vs the bikes We The Gleefuly Fleeced can buy: Our shop recently dyno'd all three bikes, all 2002s, all bone stock, with the Yamaha and the Honda being 49 state versions and the GSX-R being a California spec bike.

-GSX-R: 148 rwhp

-R1: 128 rwhp

-954: 126 rwhp

Add in the GSX-R's monster torque and its ram-air effect above 100 mph and it's pretty easy to see why the Suzuki still makes the other two feel relatively slow, anywhere. In reality, assuming ram-air is worth anywhere from 5-10 extra hp at peak, the GSX-R still has something like a real 25-30 rwhp advantage once you roll it out of a real world dealership.

Something to consider, if you need your bike to make up for what momma didn't give you.....

SilverBullet · 03-28-2002, 07:30 PM

No matter what your excuses are for the ZX9R not to be included in the comparo most of us readers (I think) would have preferred if you had waited and commented on it too.

Nevertheless this is so far one of the best articles I've read at MO. Keep up the good the work and please don't be offended by any of our opinions, just try to dig out some pointers for next time.

john · 03-28-2002, 08:18 PM

Yes, its seems the R1 and 954 came out on top because of the sheer feeling of being so small, even when compared to the GSXR. If that is what made them stand out enough to conquer the GSXR on the road, i dont think the ZX-9R would have had what it takes to win the road, in spite of the road being its forte.

I think a trip of any duration (600+ mile days) would have shown where the ZX-9R shines in this company, and i dont think anyone would disagree with that.

Nonetheless, it would be nice if ya'll could make an addendum when you get the 9R, and perhaps give some insight into how the changes made to it compare to these bikes, as well as last year's 9R. I am sure you will anyways, as you have done so in the past.

The track will probably be a different story, with the GSXR in 1st, the R1 in second, the 954 in third, and the 9R would take last, and it would go something along the lines of "the 9R had the softest suspension, in conjunction with the most mass, making it the most work on the track" but at least it would still be comfy for the ride home

Grappelli · 03-28-2002, 08:21 PM

You say you dyno'd the bikes recently. Without implying anything.. what make of bikes does your shop sell? Do you sell all three?

badsac · 03-28-2002, 11:47 PM

How about some videos from onboard the Honda? While you can't tell a real lot from videos, some footage from behind the screen on both the 954 and the GSXR like on the R1 you've provided would help us draw a few more conclusions of our own.

Not a bad article otherwise. My only other gripe was that I saw you had the next part of your article up, so I looked at the conclusion straight away and saw the Honda won. So I emailed my GSXR1000 riding mate (who will never read your site again after you didn't give his bike the win last year) and told him his bike got cained again. But after reading the article, from the tone of it you'd swear the placings were in reversed order. Trying for a little political correctness to quiet the squids this year?

ducfast · 03-29-2002, 02:00 AM

I can't believe you didn't include a "motarded 1995 RMX250 in this test!

And another thing, tell my wife for $12 a year it's worth it for me to have the computer near the toilet.

Actually, good start. I don't feel so bloated sitting here and after moving the computer, I don't need a paper magazine.

Craig

imported_Chris_S · 03-29-2002, 02:43 AM

Speak for yourself...I've had a ZX9R, and rode a 954 this week. The 9R is a great bike, and has been the sensible choice. The 954 is so all-around great, all while being perfectly comfortable and practical, that it seems like the 9R has lost much of it's advantage in its greatest strength. I'm in the market for a literbike, but regardless of the outcome I'm already sold on the Honda (or the RC51 if I decide to sacrifice comfort/practicality for character).

granny · 03-29-2002, 03:48 AM

I agree that the "ergonomic triangle" measurement is imperfect precisely because it is two dimensional, width being important to the feel of the bikes. Heck, to me, all of three of the 2001 versions of these bikes feel like draft horses compared to most Ducati's which not even the Ducati rider owned up to and is exactly why you should give some objective width measurement. Even if the "industry" is not unanimous as to the points to measure, you could at least show the bikes in plan view and indicate the width between the "average" riders knees. It's not that difficult to show the difference. Or can Johnny not measure?

Despite my complaining, I liked the review, it is easily as good as anything that you've ever done.

03-28-2002, 06:47 PM	#1
TheFox Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 730	Re: Year 2002 Open Sportbike Shootout First post, gents. Wa'al, I'd say not bad. I'm very disappointed that the Kawasaki didn't make the test; I feel that it would have done well. I'm not buying any of these bikes nor would I ever consider one, so my opinion doesn't really matter (even to me) so I'm just going to give you a pat on the back and be on my merry way. Late. BTW How did Hackfu get up front? And if he kicked so much tail on the Suzy how did he not vote it tops, let alone mention it in his write up? I mean, he said he wasn't scared at all...in fact, he said he felt confident on it...and from all the mags the vibe I'd gotten was that the Gixxer was scary. Even the pros said it. What gives? --Foxy __________________ --The Fox The best bike to take a trip on is the one you have.

03-28-2002, 07:07 PM	#2
minime Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 334	Re: Year 2002 Open Sportbike Shootout The Kawasaki was left out because we didn't have it in time and also because nobody thought it would finish higher than last place (this was mentioned in the Weigh-in for this story that was posted a few days ago). And after riding one today (it belonged to another magazine who is voting it last in their shootout, by the way) we more than ever stand by our initial words. As for Calvin, he was sent out to the front under the premise that John and myself would pass him as we thought it'd make great video (this is in the second paragraph of the story). As for why he didn't vote it tops, it's because (as he says of the Yamaha in his Unwanted Advice): "it was the easiest for me to ride. I didn't really need to acclimate myself to any aspect of its performance envelope... The R1 just worked."

03-28-2002, 07:16 PM	#3
Van Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 93	Re: Year 2002 Open Sportbike Shootout Entertaining read, nice summations of each bike's feel. -GSX-R: Motor and stability get you there first, regardless, if a bit crudely in doing so compared to the other two. (Having ridden a few GSX-R1000s, I find it almost impossible to fathom how anybody could ever describe its handling as anything other than polished and honed to the finest point imaginable, so these two new bikes must be absolute handling bastards if they make the 1000 seem even a little bit crude.) -R1: Coolest, best looking, most desireable, albeit neither the fastest, most comfortable or easiest to ride for most. Sounds like the throttle response on this one oughtta be made a law. What you ride if you wanna get laid by the top shelf strippers, while the GSX-R will at least get you laid by the ones working the Monday afternoon shifts. The Honda? Well, that smart, sensible girl with the great rack that you're bangin', the one who lives next door, she still COULD be a stripper, right? -954: Finally, the real deal in middle weight handling allied with true litre bike punch. Easiest to ride, most versatile, sharpest handling, best brakes, most confidence inspiring (only to a point though, although that point is well beyond 95% of this readership's abilities and/or nad...) It's a bleedin' Honda, and finally it's pretty pissed off. Still have the feeling the GSX-R will take the track marbles, if the track has room to stretch the legs of these things. Then again, the way they described the GSX-R stomping 'em with torque on tight corner exits, hey, maybe it won't need a wide open track. Oughtta be interesting, though it seems the writing is on the wall that the GSX-R won't be allowed to win the comparo because of subjective reasons (and the fact that it's not in the best interests of the industry to have a year old bike beat the new pups in these comparos), even if in the end the GSX-R puts up the best numbers no matter how they test 'em... One little side bar, as a Real World Shot O' Reality, regarding these magazine bikes vs the bikes We The Gleefuly Fleeced can buy: Our shop recently dyno'd all three bikes, all 2002s, all bone stock, with the Yamaha and the Honda being 49 state versions and the GSX-R being a California spec bike. -GSX-R: 148 rwhp -R1: 128 rwhp -954: 126 rwhp Add in the GSX-R's monster torque and its ram-air effect above 100 mph and it's pretty easy to see why the Suzuki still makes the other two feel relatively slow, anywhere. In reality, assuming ram-air is worth anywhere from 5-10 extra hp at peak, the GSX-R still has something like a real 25-30 rwhp advantage once you roll it out of a real world dealership. Something to consider, if you need your bike to make up for what momma didn't give you.....

03-28-2002, 07:30 PM	#4
SilverBullet Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 159	Re: Year 2002 Open Sportbike Shootout No matter what your excuses are for the ZX9R not to be included in the comparo most of us readers (I think) would have preferred if you had waited and commented on it too. Nevertheless this is so far one of the best articles I've read at MO. Keep up the good the work and please don't be offended by any of our opinions, just try to dig out some pointers for next time.

03-28-2002, 08:18 PM	#5
john Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 356	Re: Year 2002 Open Sportbike Shootout Yes, its seems the R1 and 954 came out on top because of the sheer feeling of being so small, even when compared to the GSXR. If that is what made them stand out enough to conquer the GSXR on the road, i dont think the ZX-9R would have had what it takes to win the road, in spite of the road being its forte. I think a trip of any duration (600+ mile days) would have shown where the ZX-9R shines in this company, and i dont think anyone would disagree with that. Nonetheless, it would be nice if ya'll could make an addendum when you get the 9R, and perhaps give some insight into how the changes made to it compare to these bikes, as well as last year's 9R. I am sure you will anyways, as you have done so in the past. The track will probably be a different story, with the GSXR in 1st, the R1 in second, the 954 in third, and the 9R would take last, and it would go something along the lines of "the 9R had the softest suspension, in conjunction with the most mass, making it the most work on the track" but at least it would still be comfy for the ride home __________________ You shouldnt wave at a guy with no hands, he might think you are **y. Look at what i got, mother**er.

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03-28-2002, 08:21 PM	#6
Grappelli Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 203	Re: Year 2002 Open Sportbike Shootout You say you dyno'd the bikes recently. Without implying anything.. what make of bikes does your shop sell? Do you sell all three?

03-28-2002, 11:47 PM	#7
badsac Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 120	More videos!!! How about some videos from onboard the Honda? While you can't tell a real lot from videos, some footage from behind the screen on both the 954 and the GSXR like on the R1 you've provided would help us draw a few more conclusions of our own. Not a bad article otherwise. My only other gripe was that I saw you had the next part of your article up, so I looked at the conclusion straight away and saw the Honda won. So I emailed my GSXR1000 riding mate (who will never read your site again after you didn't give his bike the win last year) and told him his bike got cained again. But after reading the article, from the tone of it you'd swear the placings were in reversed order. Trying for a little political correctness to quiet the squids this year?

03-29-2002, 02:00 AM	#8
ducfast Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 25	Re: Year 2002 Open Sportbike Shootout I can't believe you didn't include a "motarded 1995 RMX250 in this test! And another thing, tell my wife for $12 a year it's worth it for me to have the computer near the toilet. Actually, good start. I don't feel so bloated sitting here and after moving the computer, I don't need a paper magazine. Craig

03-29-2002, 02:43 AM	#9
imported_Chris_S Founding Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 5	Re: Year 2002 Open Sportbike Shootout Speak for yourself...I've had a ZX9R, and rode a 954 this week. The 9R is a great bike, and has been the sensible choice. The 954 is so all-around great, all while being perfectly comfortable and practical, that it seems like the 9R has lost much of it's advantage in its greatest strength. I'm in the market for a literbike, but regardless of the outcome I'm already sold on the Honda (or the RC51 if I decide to sacrifice comfort/practicality for character).

03-29-2002, 03:48 AM	#10
granny Founding Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 149	Include the ergonomic triangle you worthless twits 8-) I agree that the "ergonomic triangle" measurement is imperfect precisely because it is two dimensional, width being important to the feel of the bikes. Heck, to me, all of three of the 2001 versions of these bikes feel like draft horses compared to most Ducati's which not even the Ducati rider owned up to and is exactly why you should give some objective width measurement. Even if the "industry" is not unanimous as to the points to measure, you could at least show the bikes in plan view and indicate the width between the "average" riders knees. It's not that difficult to show the difference. Or can Johnny not measure? Despite my complaining, I liked the review, it is easily as good as anything that you've ever done.