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Old 03-31-2002, 11:04 AM   #101
stormcloud
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Default Re: Year 2002 Open Sportbike Shootout

Yep, as long as you have your weight forward before the wheel would have come up, it should minimize the chance it will at all. Once the wheel is up, the "equal and opposite reaction" involved with moving your weight forward (pulling on the bars etc) would lift the front even more(all other things being equal).

To stay at balance point(BP), a wheelying bike must be at a constant speed. If above BP, we'd better decelerate to get the wheel down or OUCH!. Conversely, if the wheel is below BP it will come down unless the bike is accelerating enough. (side track:- have you seen the footage of John Kocinski monoing a scooter to a stop on one wheel? Awesome)



I agree that the front of the R1 would come up prior to max accel'(MA) - and keeping weight forward would keep it down against a relatively harder acceleration, meaning a greater speed + distance before a mono. Then you have RELATIVELY less weight over the rear wheel, reducing traction.





This is complex isnt it. You've really got me thinking even more about the relationship b/w weight distribution, how it affects the pitch of a bike and it's ability to accelerate (+decelerate). That ability must vary with different tyres (+ their temp and wear), suspension settings, ride height, rider height and weight and positioning, power output and delivery, traction, lean angle, incline of the road, luggage weight and position...... Whew!



I think we were initially taliking about wheelspin v's wheelie in emergency acceleration......I still lean towards the wheelie, and for my skill level I think it's a more comfortable outcome for me.

Thanks for stimulating my brain cells.



I'm enjoying the discussion - maybe there should be a discussion board where people can ask questions and ponder such things - it cant hurt and may just make us all safer? Maybe there already is one, I'll have a look around before suggesting it to the MO crew.



Cheers.

PS I think it is OK to disagree (as long as we dont feel the need to fly planes at each other because of it....- thoughtful, respectful debate is much more civilised. ) Whoops, bang! crunch! - I've just slipped off my soapbox
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Old 03-31-2002, 12:38 PM   #102
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Default Re: Year 2002 Open Sportbike Shootout

You're absolutely right! It depends entirely on what's most stress-free for you.



Actually, max acceleration happens when the rear wheel just starts to slip and the weight on the front wheel is zero. It's up to the rider to get his weight and throttle at exactly the right place.

I agree about the discussion board; I think MO already has a submission page but I don't know how to use it.

An MO tech guru we could submit disputes to would be nice, too. A lot of these disputes don't get resolved at all, or leave an apparent result that's plain wrong.



Cheers, indeed.
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Old 03-31-2002, 03:28 PM   #103
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Default Re: Year 2002 Open Sportbike - Number Gixxer front end? How the Gixxer can win.

If a tire change fixes the problem, then I expect we will know soon. Because when they track test the bikes they will most likely run all of them on the same tires. So if the numbness remains while track testing, assuming that they don't run Bridgestones, then the culprit is likely the bike and not the tire.
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Old 03-31-2002, 04:37 PM   #104
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Default RE: unrelated but need help!!

84 MPH for 2 hours ? ... mmmmmmm, no, I don't think so. More than likely it was purchased by somebody and it scared the crap out of them. Motorcycles aren't for everybody. I purchased mine 2 years ago and have 15K on it, an aquaintence of mine bought one shortly after I did and only has about 2K on his. Just look in the ads anywhere at all of the motorcycles ( especially HDs ) that are 5 years old and have only a few thousand miles on them. Buy either one and enjoy it. If you're really worried, buy the extended warranty, probably a good idea anyway with the VTEC technology being used on the Viffer.
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Old 03-31-2002, 05:04 PM   #105
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Default Re: Year 2002 Open Sportbike Shootout

Could the fact that they raised the engine on the R1 this year be the main issue? Drawing a line from the contact patch of the rear tire to where the mass is centralized on the R1 should be steeper than on the other two bikes. If thats the case then the R1 would be closer to a wheelie before you even pour the coals to it. Its all leverage...
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Old 03-31-2002, 05:27 PM   #106
stormcloud
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Default Re: Year 2002 Open Sportbike Shootout

I like what you said about the max accel' thing it makes sense - also an auto engineer mate with a turbo Volvo is always trying to get just the right amount of spin, and his computer confirms he's quicker off the line with some rather than none. He doesn't have to worry about lifting the front though (FWD).

I'll send a note in to JB and see how to use the discussion boards (I cant work it out either...).. or what he thinks about setting one up. Other poster's may be able to contribute - a lot of this is physics- it could be messy but just might be interesting.



I just had a thought:- maybe a traction control/launch control could involve a sensor to establish bike pitch in relation to the ground angle (slightly reducing power not only if the wheel spins too much, but also if the front lifts too much - I can see it now, full throttle and a dumped clutch giving perfect and repeatable starts. Kinda takes away some of the challenge though I reckon and therefore some of the fun)



Hoo Roo.

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Old 03-31-2002, 07:31 PM   #107
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Default Re: Unsatisfied with test.

Ok then, this article was called "Round One, The Street". And you personally (as in which bike you'd buy) chose the R1 as the winner in your summations. Which means you chose the R1 as the personal winner of the street seeing that's what you called this test. Maybe you shouldn't have said what your personal choices would be until the entire test had been completed.
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Old 04-01-2002, 03:10 AM   #108
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Default Re: Year 2002 Open Sportbike Shootout

I've written him too. This is fun.
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Old 04-01-2002, 03:13 AM   #109
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Default Re: Year 2002 Open Sportbike Shootout

Yes! Thanks...
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Old 04-01-2002, 04:14 AM   #110
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Default Re: Year 2002 Open Sportbike Shootout - fixing R1 vibes

Yes I have a 02 R1 and I don't find the vibration any more offensive than my buddies 01 gsxr1000. However the bar ends on the R1 are very small so I'm sure that if you wanted to change them to larger ones it would stop the buzz pretty well. I've changed the bar end weights from larger to smaller and it has increased the vibes, so I would assume the opposite would be true as well.
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