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Old 04-02-2008, 11:31 AM   #21
The_AirHawk
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I agree with everything you said, especially the stupidity of using corn to make fuel,
As they're only planting 83million acres of corn this year versus the 88million that was expected, corn-futures are already estimated at over $7.50/bushel for 2009 (nearly twice what a bushel is going for today), even with the record crop of '07. It took the analysts and reporters two weeks to figure-out why - corn is hard on the soil, gotta rotate crops - 2007 growing season, many farmers broke their rotation and planted corn instead of soybeans (which caused soy to run about $12/bushel this season vs. the $8/bushel of the previous year), hoping to cash-in on the high-$ speculation from 2006.

Now, they've nearly-exhausted the soil, they HAVE to plant soybeans (or a Nitrogen-fixer of some sort). Possibly even for more than one season.

Foodstock-Fuels are NOT the future, that's for sure. IMHO it introduces too damn much volatility into the Grain Market.
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Old 04-02-2008, 11:41 AM   #22
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As they're only planting 83million acres of corn this year versus the 88million that was expected, corn-futures are already estimated at over $7.50/bushel for 2009 (nearly twice what a bushel is going for today), even with the record crop of '07. It took the analysts and reporters two weeks to figure-out why - corn is hard on the soil, gotta rotate crops - 2007 growing season, many farmers broke their rotation and planted corn instead of soybeans (which caused soy to run about $12/bushel this season vs. the $8/bushel of the previous year), hoping to cash-in on the high-$ speculation from 2006.

Now, they've nearly-exhausted the soil, they HAVE to plant soybeans (or a Nitrogen-fixer of some sort). Possibly even for more than one season.

Foodstock-Fuels are NOT the future, that's for sure. IMHO it introduces too damn much volatility into the Grain Market.
.... fuel stocks are a total disaster. Sugar cane produced ethanol is another thing entirely. Try to get the US agricultural combines to give up the price controls on sugar though....... Heck, the only reason the FDA approved high-fructose corn syrup as a sweetener is the same as they used to approve Nutrasweet.... money talks and FDA employees, just like DOD employees, want fat retirement reward jobs from the private companies they work for while pretending to work for the US public. Unless you can stop govt employees from ever working for the industries they regulate this corruption will go on.
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Old 04-02-2008, 12:35 PM   #23
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"considering nobody's done an inventory"

Geologist from BIG OIL get paid six figures to find the stuff. If you start Google(ing) Oil Reserves in America you'll find enough info to see I'm correct. Off the Keys, just before you get into International waters in Cuban territory China is drilling for oil in a shelf that is mostly in US waters. Cuba figures no one cares and the Chinese don't use the same methods and technology for drilling that we use but their setting up rigs- (see an issue with that). One big spill will wake up the Keys and ruin the breaches for years. So, in the "Who'd you rather" sweepstakes wouldn't it be better for us to have US companies drilling for this or just wait for the accident and a nice "Oops" from China?
ANWR drilling site in size is like putting a stamp on a legal envelope. We know it's there, but still get resistance. The Utah/CO self is as large as the self that Chavez drills on in Venesuala. If we would build new refineries at a rate of 2 to 3 a year and start drilling now we could cut our imported oil by 50% in two Presidential terms and by 2020 be almost free of OPEC. 12yrs isn't that long. All the "other" technologies would still be developed along side of development of our own oil supply. Geologist can find it. Science can make it safer and cleaner. Consumers will see prices regulate. But environmental "do gooders" will tie themselves to the dead oak tree because they think they are helping the world. Who's crazy here?
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Old 04-02-2008, 05:34 PM   #24
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Who's crazy here?
Me. "Klazy Ken," remember? Having said that, Kirk, you are a sharp guy. The "let's keep the Commies from getting it before us and making a spill" argument is a beaut. Ok, let's say there's another 100 years of oil. I don't believe that for a minute, but let's say there is. And let's pretend that Prince William Sound is an untouched virgin wilderness, and LA has clean clear air and blue skies. Ahem. Are you ok with another 100 years of being f'd over by the oil companies with artificial prices coupled with obscene profits? How about wasting the oil that 1000X more valuable for plastics, roads, etc.etc.etc. Did you happen to catch the hearings Congress held this week? They were asking Exxon Mobil to explain why they needed TAX BREAKS with $44 BILLION DOLLARS in profits for the year. "Oh, we're investing in new energy sources, Sir." "Um, well, your own records show you spent about what, $9 million on that in the last 3 years, or .00001% of your profits?"

I wouldn't be sticking up for the oil companies...they've been sticking it to you and all of us for a long, long time. Cheap, clean energy is a hugely liberating force in any society. Nobody who's getting rich on oil wants that, my friend.
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Old 04-02-2008, 09:24 PM   #25
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Me. "Klazy Ken," remember? Having said that, Kirk, you are a sharp guy. The "let's keep the Commies from getting it before us and making a spill" argument is a beaut. Ok, let's say there's another 100 years of oil. I don't believe that for a minute, but let's say there is. And let's pretend that Prince William Sound is an untouched virgin wilderness, and LA has clean clear air and blue skies. Ahem. Are you ok with another 100 years of being f'd over by the oil companies with artificial prices coupled with obscene profits? How about wasting the oil that 1000X more valuable for plastics, roads, etc.etc.etc. Did you happen to catch the hearings Congress held this week? They were asking Exxon Mobil to explain why they needed TAX BREAKS with $44 BILLION DOLLARS in profits for the year. "Oh, we're investing in new energy sources, Sir." "Um, well, your own records show you spent about what, $9 million on that in the last 3 years, or .00001% of your profits?"

I wouldn't be sticking up for the oil companies...they've been sticking it to you and all of us for a long, long time. Cheap, clean energy is a hugely liberating force in any society. Nobody who's getting rich on oil wants that, my friend.
I can't figure out why the oil companies aren't clamoring to be the ones to find the next energy source and get it ready for the market. Whatever "it" is, it ain't gonna be free to manufacture or deliver which means we gotta pay for it, which also means profits for whoever can supply it. Granted, the profits on the next big thing may not be as huge as they are for crude, but they'll be larger than what the oil companies will make when the wells run dry. Their goose ain't gonna lay golden eggs forever so why not spend some of those billions on a replacement product? Unless they've already got it and are just sitting on it...
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Old 04-03-2008, 04:49 AM   #26
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"Cheap, clean energy is a hugely liberating force in any society."

And that energy source would be?????????????? I believe nothing in the next generation of energy will be cheap.
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Old 04-03-2008, 05:14 AM   #27
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"Cheap, clean energy is a hugely liberating force in any society."

And that energy source would be?????????????? I believe nothing in the next generation of energy will be cheap.
You'd think by now, as thoroughly as marxist ideology has been discredited, that you'd stop hearing that "eeeeevil profiteers" rhetoric, but no. They keep chanting their mantra. Never mind that the largest piles of bodies in history are at the hands of socialists.
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Old 04-03-2008, 05:45 AM   #28
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You'd think by now, as thoroughly as marxist ideology has been discredited, that you'd stop hearing that "eeeeevil profiteers" rhetoric, but no. They keep chanting their mantra. Never mind that the largest piles of bodies in history are at the hands of socialists.
I think if we had a body of appointed officials to oversee and collectivize our entire nations energy resources and dole them out as they see fit according to a treaty that we never got to vote for or ratify, then we could solve all our energy problems and we could all live very happily ever after. Doesn't that sound like a rosy future??

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Old 04-03-2008, 07:10 AM   #29
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Go Nuke, zero emissions except warm water. We have a clean viable source of energy right here in Nevada and Utah. Run competitive bids for the most efficient design, not the cheapest, the most efficient. Build a string of plants and training facilities off that one basic design, institute a nation wide standard for licensing and you eliminate 90% of operator error. There's your energy independance, build a few more refineries, offer fuel efficient TDI diesels for all makes in the U.S. then leave the Arabs to their Middle Ages society. When they can behave like civilized human beings perhaps they can rejoin the 21st century
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Old 04-03-2008, 07:11 AM   #30
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BP and Shell are both working on GTL (gas to liquids) technologies. Trying to make it easier to use natural gas as an every day commodity. We have plenty of natural gas under Tx, Ok and the Dakotas. They are, also, working on other things, but be clear that Oil is what this country runs on and until technology makes the next big leap it is what it is- for now.
I could care less what number you use for profits. It's MARGIN that matters. What Ken (smart guy) and his MENSA Mom know is that margin is what pays back investors. Cosmetics companies make more money a year in combined profit than BIG OIL does- period. Google it and see. But we're not b!tching at them to "SHARE" the profits with pitiful poor. Or telling them they have to supply free cosmetics to the homeless. It's costing oil companies twice as much to produce their products. Yet, we b!tch because they charge only 50% more to sell that product.
You should be mad at Federal and State gov't because they charge some 30-50 cents of EVERY gallon in taxes. They produce NOTHING, but take 50 cents! If you look at BIG OIL's margin you'll see they make about 8 cents a gallon. Whew! That's big time money. Point is, we're whining to the wrong people. Tell BIG BROTHER to ease off taxes and gas prices will come down. Open refineries and set up oil rigs and prices will come down because production will cost less. Give and take, people. I don't expect us to go 100 years using crude oil. But we do have it and should access it until the technology is there to produce products that average people can afford. We're not at that stage, but we will be soon. Until then use the technology we have and produce what we need. That's my arguement.
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