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Old 12-13-2006, 02:14 PM   #1
Z3n
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Default Re: Minneapolis Tries Charging for Faster Road Lanes

In california, you can lane split, who cares? I drive from santa cruz to san diego 3-6 times a year, and i have to split through LA pretty much anytime i go through there.



It's interesting though, that they're putting a big emphasis on shared vechicle solutions which seems to be the best idea, IMHO.



Also, i think it's worth noting that as much as we all love our motorcycles, they're really not for everyone, and I don't think i'd be comfortable stuck in traffic on a bike.



As far as cali laws are concerned though, motorcycles are allowed to use the diamond (carpool) lanes, so the entire concept is somewhat irrelevant to me...but anything that'll keep cars off the road is a good idea in my book.



(For the record, i ride rain or shine...i own no vechicle but my motorcycle.)
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Old 12-13-2006, 02:35 PM   #2
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Default Motorcycles in US Transportation Policy

It's as if we are completely invisible to Government and academic policy wonks alike here, even though European countries utilize powered two-wheelers in their transportation planning. In the radio stroy, they acknowledge a 4-8% decrease in traffic means a decrease in congestion of 50%. How do you shrink the volume of traffic 4-8%? Put 10% of commuters onto scooters and motorcycles. Duh! Not for everybody, but maybe, just maybe encouraging motorcycle use could actually see that goal.



There's traffic everywhere, and as sprawl gets worse, traffic will get worse, unless innovative solutions like road pricing are combined with encouraging alternatives to the car.



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Old 12-13-2006, 03:45 PM   #3
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Default Re: Minneapolis Tries Charging for Faster Road Lanes

All very well and nice, but the taxpayers pay for the roads. Now they gotta pay to use them? Funny that the only solutions they ever think of involve soaking the public for more money. As if consuming $9000 per taxpayer already isn't enough for the Fed Govt.



For the math challenged Fed budget currently 2.7 Trillion (that's 2.7 million millions) / 300 million citizens = $9000 per citizen. That's $36,000 per average family. In Utah the State Govt runs $4 Billion with only 2.5 million citizens gives...... cha ching $1,600 per citizen. Then there's County taxes.......about $1000 per citizen. This makes my personal share of the appropriate tax burdens about $11,600. That's $46,400 for my family. And that ain't enough? Whathefock? I need to pay more?



If these numbers aren't enough, what numbers are? There have to be other solutions than just soaking the public to make up for the incompetence of the govt.
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Old 12-13-2006, 04:16 PM   #4
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Default Re: Minneapolis Tries Charging for Faster Road Lanes

Living in the greater Mpls./St.Paul region myself, I can assure you that motorcycles and and cars with at least two people in them can always use these lanes for free. They have been underutilized though, so that's why they now allow cars with only one occupant to pay a fee and use these lanes also.
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Old 12-13-2006, 04:25 PM   #5
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Default You are a Genius at disingenuousess!

Do YOU pay $46,400 in total taxes per year? If you do, you either need to get a better tax preparer or you are making a LOT of money, so I can't really muster up much pity for you.



Corporate tax burden has slipped from 16% 30 years ago to under 10% today. What's up with that? We spend a lot of money, true, but of that 2.568 trillion (and by the way, we only came up with 2.1 trillion in taxes, there was a shortfall called a "deficit" you may have heard of so it actually is only $7000 per person), most of it (1.6 trillion) isn't discretionary social spending. States have an even smaller amount in their discretionary spending ledgers; in CA it's less than 10%.



Anyway, since government is a human-devised tool for public utilization of resources, of course a government solution will invlove spending money. That's what governments do.



Government has plenty of solutions availalble to them for decreasing traffic congestion. The problem is that nobody likes them. Carpool lanes? People don't use them.



In any case, nobody is charging anybody to use the roads in Minnesota; they are being charged to use one particular lane. If you choose not to use that lane, you sit in the same traffic jam as before. There's a good quote in the story; if government makes a public resource available for free, people will use it all up. I'm reading a book about our modern food production system, and it's the same with corn; government policies make it practically free, so we now produce billions more tons of the stuff than we can use, so we're figuring out how to eat it all by making it into corn syrup, cows, and even gasoline.



Anyway, think of the wealth created by the existence of our road networks, and you'll see that they have paid for themselves many times over.
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Old 12-13-2006, 04:26 PM   #6
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Default Got any ideas?

Vote for pols how will push for mass transit, convince people to share rides, live closer to work, ride a bike. Or put up with people practicing their free will to live where they want and drive where they want on roads, whose value, by principle of supply and demand, have become greater. That being said do you have any ideas, regarding a solution?
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Old 12-13-2006, 04:29 PM   #7
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Default Re: Minneapolis Tries Charging for Faster Road Lanes

"The power to tax involves the power to destroy" John Marshall/1819

An unfair tax system encourages dishonesty and has created more liars than golf and fishing combined.

One last thing, If it only cost $.03 to produce all currency in this country, what makes a twenty worth more than a one?
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Old 12-13-2006, 05:01 PM   #8
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Default Re: Minneapolis Tries Charging for Faster Road Lanes

WA state is going to start doing this on SR 167. Currently, WA state motorcycles can use the HOV (carpool) lane. I fear this will just clog up the HOV lane taking away the advantage of motorcycles, Buses, Vanpools, etc.



For those of you that live in red-states or red areas (rural) areas you (seruzaweasel) will probably be preaching about Big Bad Government making us pay another tax. But those of us who commute everyday see this as just another way to allocate scarce resources hell they have tool roads/bridges back east what is the diff. Ronnie Raygun Reagan would be happy cause he would call it a user fee not a tax... It's is probably the only way to get money to build roads in states where red areas (Eastern Washington) don't want to pay higher gax taxes for roads i.e. we don't want to pay for Seattle freeways..



I don't like the fact it will clog up the HOV lane.
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Old 12-13-2006, 05:05 PM   #9
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Default Re: You are a Genius at disingenuousess!

Gabe that was excellent. As a moderate i.e liberal Republican/conservative democrat) I think there is a role for government in creating infrastructure for commerce.



Well said. I think you need to write an opinion column.. i.e. be the Chris Mathews of motorcycling.



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Old 12-13-2006, 05:23 PM   #10
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Default Don't stop now.

I'm sure there are more looters out there.
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