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Old 10-24-2006, 03:46 AM   #1
vermicious
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Default Re: The Cool, Green Future

I call shenanigans.
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Old 10-24-2006, 04:14 AM   #2
DC_Dave
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Default Re: The Ignorant, Green Future

I invest in energy, so I have a keen interest in energy supply and demand. I think the "hydrogen economy" is a smoke screen.



Hydrogen is not a source of energy, it's an energy carrier. Energy is required to create hydrogen gas. Energy from fossil fuels, nuclear, or other energy source.



The energy yield in the creation of hydrogen is typically 14%. That means you put 100 watts in and get 14 watts out.



On top of that, the energy density of hydrogen is extremely low. Typically, hydrogen tanks are run at 10,000 PSI, and yet only yield (in the case of this honda) 6mpg. Is this sounding like a good idea yet?



To push a tractor trailer across the country, I think it takes something like 4000 gallons of hydrogen under great pressure. Hydrogen won't drive trains, aircraft, or ships because the energy density is too low. http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html



One quick fix for our energy problems is $150-$200/bbl oil. Once prices hit that level, we'll have all the oil we'll ever need (through convservation & production), and as many alternatives as we want.



Oh, and those of you thinking that gasoline prices are going to drop forever, think again. The only reason we've seen gas drop so quickly is because Mr. Paulson's Goldman firm changed the % component of gasoline in the world's biggest commodity index from 8% down to 2.5%. This created a worldwide sell-off of the stuff. http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig7/stojan1.html



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Old 10-24-2006, 04:32 AM   #3
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Default Re: The Ignorant, Green Future

Thank you for your knowledgeable input.
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Old 10-24-2006, 04:37 AM   #4
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Default Re: The Ignorant, Green Future

And don't forget that the republicans want to win votes and that can't be done with every facet of our lives tanking because of them. Watch the gas prices soar after November 7 no matter who wins.
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Old 10-24-2006, 04:44 AM   #5
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Default Re: The Ignorant, Green Future

Oh, good lord.
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Old 10-24-2006, 04:49 AM   #6
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Default Re: The Ignorant, Green Future

moveon ping!
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Old 10-24-2006, 05:23 AM   #7
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Default Re: The Ignorant, Green Future

Don't forget the conspiracy to hire a bunch of people to get unemployment down to 4.6% (they'll all be fired after the election) and to send the stock market over 12,000.
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Old 10-24-2006, 05:25 AM   #8
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Default How is this going to save any energy?

Okay I am taking NATURAL GAS and REMOVING THE CARBON from it and putting that into the air as CO2...

Then I am taking the hydrogen and using that.



So I am using some of the energy of the natural gas not to move my vehicle but instead to convert the natural gas into hydrogen that I then use to power my vehicle...



Ahh....



Hate to tell you folks this but you would save more "energy" and probably produce less pollution if you just burned the natural gas at a power plant and used an electric car.

Or used a natural gas powered hybrid.



Hate to burst anyone's bubble but getting hydrogen from natural gas isn't a huge help.

Now using a nuclear power plant to make hydrogen that would help a lot.

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Old 10-24-2006, 05:56 AM   #9
Buzglyd
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Default There's a rumblin' in the Pacific Northwest

and it ain't Mt. St. Helen



By the way, isn't the name of that mountain violating separation of church and state?
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Old 10-24-2006, 06:17 AM   #10
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Default Re: There's a rumblin' in the Pacific Northwest

yes, it needs to be renamed Mt. Helen.



And Los Angeles needs to be renamed LA. or Los.



And San Diego just Diego.



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