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Old 09-21-2006, 08:26 AM   #11
bod
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Default Re: Lemmings...

I agree it isnt that simple I got my first bike at 15 and didnt get a motorcycle endorsement till I was 28ish just due to lack of motivation. I had bought 3 bikes 2 at a stealership without an endorsment my insurance has never asked if I have an endorsement. Through all of this I totalled 2 of the bikes and got a couple of tickets and the cops never asked about an endorsement I still wonder if getting it meant anything at all because no one seems to care wether you have one or not.
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Old 09-21-2006, 08:51 AM   #12
acecycleins
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Default Re: Lemmings...

In most states, although required, if you are subjected to Officer Pastry's blue light special odds are that Pastry won't issue a ticket for improper license if you don't act like a fool. So, if law enforcment doesn't enforce then what? If there is NO incentive to get a M class endorsement then why bother- I have to hear that at least 2 to 10 times a day for my agency. Sucks to be me. All I want is a simple M class customer. I don't get them and people crash then rates go up accross the board for everyone and I'm the bad guy. H*ll, I'm just an insurance agent. I have to play the game by the rules the insurance comapnies send and I have no choice. But I'm still the bad guy. Figure that. I don't agree with the way any of these insurance guys conduct buisness but My business is built on relying on those very companies. I'm just the agent, but I'm always the bad guy. Tell me- Would you rather deal with someone who cares less about you and your ride or me- a 25 year rider that understands ALL aspects of motorcycles and riders and ACTUALLY cares about the customer because most become friends not just clients.
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Old 09-21-2006, 08:58 AM   #13
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Default Re: Lemmings...

Who cares? Let them all rush out to buy busas and then allow them to wollow in their stupidity when they '07 ZX14 killer hits the road. Who cares if its not safe? Natural selection is a good thing and far from new...
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Old 09-21-2006, 09:05 AM   #14
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Default Re: Lemmings...

It still troubles me that it always comes back to the type of bike that BR was riding. While it would appear that because he was helmetless, he was being reckless, the facts prove that not to be the case. He was not exceeding the speed limit. And since there is no requirement for him to have been wearing a helmet, he was doing nothing at all illegal or technically reckless (not that I agree with his choice to go helmetless). Therefor, it wouldn't have mattered if he were riding his 'busa or a 250cc mini-cruiser, the result would likely have been the same. In fact, the superior performance capabilities of his superbike should - if anything - have actually helped in that situation if there would have been any chance for him to have escaped.



This is not to say that any squidiot should jump on a high powered superbike - or even a 600cc sportbike as their first ride. I also don't think the goverment should legislate common sense if it doesn't affect others. I do like the idea of variable insurance rates based on experience in addition to the bike. Some companies take training into account, but I've never seen the number of years as a licensed rider apply to a discount. And while simple years riding doesn't correlate to ability, it does provide some insight to experience. I would have no problem with excessive rates for a newby on a liter bike if it meant more reasonable rates for that same newby later on, once he's racked up some time in the saddle. That might just be enough to disuade a potentially dangerous purchase.
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Old 09-21-2006, 09:36 AM   #15
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Default Re: Lemmings...

I'm so sick of hearing about BR but this article is fairly balanced and makes sense I guess.



This story is not even news.. it never was except for he throws an ovoid pigskin around in a game for a living, which apparently makes him important. Inattentive driver and unskilled rider have a left-turn accident.. wow that is news?



I think there is nothing that can be done about people riding bikes they shouldn't be riding. It's just not worth the effort to try to stop it.. just let it go at education. The longer I ride motorcycles and the more motorcyclists I meet, I come to one conclusion., We motorcylists as a group are just stupid. Too stupid to grasp most of the concepts in the basic MSF class, too stupid to wear gear, too stupid to maintain our bikes in safe working order, too stupid to choose an appropriate bike, too stupid to ride legally and sanely, and too stupid to admit we have a problem. There is a tiny minority that is not stupid and understands all this.. but it's a tiny minority.



There is no way you are going to do anything to stop the typical punk kid from getting that Hayabusa... if you make it illegal for the dealer to sell it, he'll just buy a used one. If you make it illegal based on licensing, he'll just ride it illegally.. witness so many unregistered sportbikes being ridden by unlicensened punks.. what is the point of having a license when you're just going to go triple digits everywhere and run from the police on a semi-regular basis?



Just like you will never succeed in stopping the cruiser crowd from drinking and riding. (Or the sportbike crowd) It's just not going to happen.. drinking/riding/partying/pretending to be a badass are too intertwined in the minds of riders.



As an aside it's pretty funny to hear about a Honda dealer named after a Suzuki model who constantly has to tell customers he doesn't have a *different* Suzuki model. Since Honda and Suzuki are too stupid to value their brands enough to stop it, he should just pick up a Suzuki franchise and pocket the cash on those Busas, and then maybe Burgman can sell some Burgmans.
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Old 09-21-2006, 09:42 AM   #16
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Default Re: Lemmings...

First and foremost, BR was unlicensed. Secondly, any rider in PA that has not a) passed the safety exam or b) had two years riding experience, must wear a helmet. It is PA state law, most people just don't know about it and it isn't enforced very much.
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Old 09-21-2006, 10:15 AM   #17
ejis
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Default Re: Lemmings...

Fair 'nuff - though I thought that not being licensed did not preclude you from riding in PA. I guess that would have made it illegal for him to to be bare-headed though.



Still has nothing to do with the bike he was riding, however.
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Old 09-21-2006, 10:49 AM   #18
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Default Re: Lemmings...

Tiered licenses work for aorplanes why not for land bound high performance vehicles that punish mistakes swiftly and surely. We have all crashed (well, I know I have). A tiered license scheme would stop some of the carnage.
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Old 09-21-2006, 10:58 AM   #19
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In al likelihood, the denied buyer would go to another dealer who would gladly sell him a turbo, stretched, lowered Busa if he has the $$$. (cue Randy Newman "It's money that matters.")

The perceived invincibility of young males that allowed our species to conquer the planet (no editorial judgment, just fact) is also the same thing that causes young men to hurt or kill themsleves with a motorcycle that is too much bike for them. (It probably also caused the deaths of more than a few of our ancestors who pused the envelope a bit too much.)

As Nick Ienatsch says "The throttle is the most misused control on the motorcycle" and "The more powerful the bike, the slower you move your hands." Maybe we just need to have a braking test from 60 mph. If they can't stop the beast they can't buy it.

New superbike+squid+cold new tires= BIG OUCH
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Old 09-21-2006, 11:06 AM   #20
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Default Mike Seate

Is a cool guy. I met him at the Buell 2007 intro and he is pretty interesting and erudite. How interesting and erudite? We were at dinner with Erik Buell and everybody was listening to Mike and asking him questions!



Bookmark his column and check him out regularly.



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