Go Back   Motorcycle Forum > Motorcycle.Com General Discussion > Motorcycle News > Old News > Misc News

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-24-2006, 09:13 AM   #11
seruzawa
The Toad

 
seruzawa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: 8501 ft.
Posts: 17,461
Default Re: MI Govn'r Granholm: 'Helmets Save Lives.'

"Social responsibility", the new euphemism for greedy looters who believe they have the right to force people who work for a living to provide free goodies for themselves. There's nothing compassionate about it. It's simply greedy lazy looters.



__________________
"Make no mistake, Communism lost a big argument - one we know today as the 20th century."
seruzawa is offline   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links Remove Advertisements
Motorcycle Forum
Advertisement
Old 06-24-2006, 09:29 AM   #12
GHam
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 25
Default Re: MI Govn'r Granholm: 'Helmets Save Lives.'

Hey..wait a minute,I'm from Michigan.I'm a fat, lazy,overpaid ,UAW member and I resent that part about being Canadian.ya hoser,so kiss my ass, ehh
GHam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2006, 11:56 AM   #13
longride
Super Duper Mod Man

 
longride's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Anywhere they let me
Posts: 10,479
Default Re: MI Govn'r Granholm: 'Helmets Save Lives.'

Lemme guess. 98% of AAA members think riders should wear helmets. I bet 97% of them think motorcycles should be outlawed. I'm sure that would save some lives too.
__________________
I'm a knucklehead
longride is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2006, 12:46 PM   #14
rmdower
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 78
Default Re:

Socialism is an economic system based on cooperation rather than competition. Most modern economies are a some mix along the spectrum of pure capitalism and pure socialism.



Governments and societal collectives have a legitimate interest in protecting the citizenry;and this often clashes with more libertarian ideas of individual freedom. All I know is that some laws make more sense than others from a libertarian point of view.



Society has made a significant investment in you, your education, your health, and welfare. Your family has made significant investments in your health, safety, and welfare.



I don't have an answer to this other than on balance, wearing a helmet saves lives, and reduces the economic costs of injuries.



For anyone who cries about socialism. you should pay for yor health benefits, education, and retirement, all out of your own pocket. That would be a really help you make your point about socialism. Otherwise, you should argue for libertarianism.
rmdower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2006, 01:13 PM   #15
dmorga1
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 33
Default Let's try to look good, folks. . .

One of the things that has appealed to me about MO versus lots of other internet motorcycling destinations is that the folks here (yes, all of you) seem to be smarter than most. One of the things I like about smart people is that they tend to consider the nuances of issues and people, as well as the multiple sides of any issue. I've often had to concede that there are individuals who, although they propose ideas completely antithetical to my own, are just as smart as me if not more so. We differ in our experiences and our current environments. What we have here is a difference in philosophy. It would certainly make this board look a whole lot more intelligent if we could lay off the insults and "people who endorse x law are sheep" kind of statements. Intelligent people can differ in opinion, as radical as that idea may seem. Personally, I endorse helmet laws because a) I do not consider it a personal choice when the public ends up paying, b) there is no "right" regarding operation of a motor vehicle on public lands, and c) there is not a slippery slope on these things. So many people keep screaming that we will become a totalitarian state every time we introduce legislation. I do wish this kind of ridiculous fear-mongering would stop. Talking about logical, forseeable consequences of legislation is perfectly reasonable to do--in fact, quite patriotic. But to say, "if you vote for helmet laws, next they will do x, y, and z" is extreme and reeks of fortune-telling. I am sure that when the issue of automobile registration and operator licensing came up, a bunch of folks stood up and spoke of commies and Nazis. It certainly didn't seem to lead to that, and I don't think helmet laws have led to that kind of totalitarianism, either. Similarly, abortion has not led to the "moral decline" of states that allow it, at least by anti-abortion groups' views, for example. I raise a beer to more intelligent debate. . .
dmorga1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2006, 01:36 PM   #16
bigdx
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 780
Default Re:

Thank you for the lesson in political science.



"Governments and societal collectives have a legitimate interest in protecting the citizenry"



No, the collectively confused have the misguided notion that the government has a legitimate interested in protecting the citizenry. Like sheep they follow the herder, ignoring the ones being slaughtered and naively thinking the same fate does not await them.



BTW I normally wear a helmet for safety reasons, and cannot even remember when last I rode without.



"I don't have an answer to this other than on balance, wearing a helmet saves lives, and reduces the economic costs of injuries."



I will not argue your point other than to say that this argument is as apt at motivating the enforcing helmet laws, as it is for total banning of motorcycles. It is a well know fact that motorcycling is infinitely more dangerous than any other form of transport. One would be highly delusional to say otherwise.



BTW, I see you continually misspell downer.

bigdx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2006, 01:37 PM   #17
jasonlion54
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 70
Default Re: MI Govn'r Granholm: 'Helmets Save Lives.'

Seruzawa, hearing you call them looters just made my day. There is some sanity in this world. Nobody has a "responsibility" to society. Don't hurt other people. The rest is up to you. If I want to shoot myself in the face, or ride without a helmet, it's MY choice.



And for the record, I've never ridden without a helmet (nor shot myself in the face), because of a responsibility that I CHOOSE to accept to myself and my loved ones, NOT to the socialist looters.
jasonlion54 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2006, 01:54 PM   #18
TomSmith
Founding Member
 
TomSmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Rancho Palos Verdes, CA
Posts: 265
Default helmet laws, etc.

I am against helmet laws as a general philosophy, but I would never ride without the best quality full coverage helmet that I can find. I also like body armor - you need all the help you can get thanks to semi-conscious car drivers that should not have a driver's license.
TomSmith is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2006, 02:05 PM   #19
seruzawa
The Toad

 
seruzawa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: 8501 ft.
Posts: 17,461
Default Re:

Well, actually the people who work are already paying for all those things. Wealth doesn't grow on trees. And the govt creates nothing. It just steals from those who work to give to those who won't. No amount of excuses will change the fact that looters simply want free stuff on the backs of the people who actually produce valuable goods and services. That's what govt mandated socialism really is. No amount of justification makes greed and theft noble.





__________________
"Make no mistake, Communism lost a big argument - one we know today as the 20th century."
seruzawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2006, 02:08 PM   #20
bod
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 107
Default Re: Let's try to look good, folks. . .

hey who you calling smart.. you must be canadian ....anyway helmets save lives but I believe by FORCING people to wear them we may be saving the wrong lives and further polluting the gene pool. If they would just let us SMART guys wear the helmets is would be fine with me
bod is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off