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-   -   The Million Can March! (http://www.motorcycle.com/forum/misc-news/3520-million-can-march.html)

schizuki 04-21-2006 07:49 PM

Re: The Million Can March!
 
They're not "ridiculous" prices. As I said in an earlier thread, my 30-mile commute costs an extra buck a day at $3.00 per gallon than at $2.00.



"Ridiculous" is two bucks for a fancy cup of coffee or a buck for a bottle of water.



We're spoiled. If you're pissed about paying more for gas, think of all the money you saved on your $50 DVD player (they were $400 not so long ago), your $40 VCR (they were $500 back in the early '80s), or your $350 25-inch television (check out old Sears catalogs for what those used to cost.)



Or you could just remember that gas was pricier in 1981 when you adjust for inflation. So you want the government to "do something about it"? The last time they interfered with the free market in gas, we had shortages and rationing (basic economics, folks - price controls = scarcity.)



You can make up for the price hikes by doing things like giving up a snack cake one day, fishing under the couch cushions for change the next, checking the washer and dryer the day after that... you know, it's really not that tough to make up the difference.



This *****ing about three bucks a gallon is as annoying as when people gripe about a two-cent increase in the price of a stamp. They're both still good values.

ksquid 04-21-2006 07:54 PM

Re: The Million Can March!
 
The time to do something was 2 years ago. W has no energy policy. Record deficits causing dollar devaluation vs Middle Eastern currencies, interest rates increasing, massive borrowing from the Social Security Trust fund. A war that costs millions a day with no end in site.. By the way I am McCain Republican so don't give me the liberal label...To bad the war hero who rode a harley lost.



Enjoy this while you can cause this "boom" is on Uncle Sam's credit card.
"Deficits don't matter"Financial wizard **** Cheney vs "Deficits do matter" Alan Greenspan and 99% of the world's economists

Don't blame me

ksquid 04-21-2006 07:57 PM

Re: The Million Can March!
 
Actually dude... the state economists of WA and CA are predicting at least $3.50 a gal more likely $4 by the end of the summer on the West Coast

schizuki 04-21-2006 08:20 PM

Re: The Million Can March!
 
Nothing about increased Indian and Chinese demand. Nothing about Katrina-damaged refineries still offline. Nothing about multiple seasonal and regional reformulations causing refining bottlenecks. Nothing about resources in Arctic wastelands or offshore going untapped. Just the same old formulaic kcrap.



And Social Security trust fund? There's no such thing. It's a direct transfer from workers to retirees. That alone marks you as ignorant.

schizuki 04-21-2006 08:24 PM

Re: The Million Can March!
 
Oh, well, golly, that's another TWO bucks a day.



Why is it that the same people who crab that we need to use less oil because it's causing global warming, er, cooling, er, climate change, are also crabbing about gas price increases that are reducing consumption? Are you people EVER happy?

dylanmo 04-21-2006 08:26 PM

Re: The Million Can March!
 
Several leading economists are predicting that many posters will just go atomic apeshiat in this thread.

ujmrider 04-21-2006 09:05 PM

Re: The Million Can March!
 
Some conversion tables can be found here:

http://oregonstate.edu/Dept/pol_sci/..._Factor_Tables



What cost one dollar in 1974 would cost $4.08 today.








ksquid 04-21-2006 09:12 PM

Re: The Million Can March!
 
And Social Security trust fund? Yep you are right no trust anymore :)

ksquid 04-21-2006 09:26 PM

Re: The Million Can March!
 
Sorry had some really good Econ profs at CU! Both conservative and liberal economists agree Ws policy is reckless.

ksquid 04-21-2006 09:30 PM

Thanks for making my case stronger.
 
Yes increased demand from India and China is important. But again W has no energy policy. So this makes my point more important....The Artic drilling is a drop in the bucket... Not a long-term solution. Please don't get personal.. I'm not.

dmorga1 04-21-2006 11:10 PM

Re: The Million Can March!
 
Uh, I only have one question. If all this stuff is responsible for the increased prices, and I should just go and be jolly about it, saying "OH BOY, IT'S LIKE PRICE ADJUSTED 1974!," why are the oil companies posting exorbitant RECORD profits? Hmmm. . .gee, it must be all those factors out of their control. Should have bought Exxon stock. It's amazing how these terrible world conditions always seem to favor Big Oil. And W. And Friends.

xlr8r 04-22-2006 12:10 AM

Re: The Million Can March!
 
In the UK and EU, gas is the equivalent of seven dollars a US gallon.

MadScientistMatt 04-22-2006 01:44 AM

Re: The Million Can March!
 
Before doing this, it would be a good idea to come up with something specific to ask Congress to do.



Although trying to get demand reduced might be a good start, and one action you can take there that I'm sure everyone here can agree on: Get more people to ride motorcycles instead of taking their cars.

fastoldman 04-22-2006 03:09 AM

I am certain this is not appreciated, but
 
I am in complete agreement with schiz. Basic economics. No way is the government ever going to fix this problem. We're still paying less for gas than we should be, and certainly a lot less than we will be once we sneak past the peak oil production moment, thus ending a bubble time in human history. Get used to it, friends. And remember the gov't can only make it more expensive, not less.

longride 04-22-2006 03:09 AM

Re: The Million Can March!
 
Gonna drive your SUV to the march Mike, or walk? Gonna carry that empty can the whole way, or buy one when you get there?

Redd_Dawgg 04-22-2006 03:25 AM

Re: The Million Can March!
 
Lets start a gas war between Exxon-Mobil and the other oil companies. Boycott Exxon-Mobil until prices come down. Exxon-Mobil is the largest and most profitable oil company, if it can't sell fuel the price will come down and the other companies will follow suit. It is action we can all take.

longride 04-22-2006 03:26 AM

Re: The Million Can March!
 
What would you like the oil companies to do? Go out of business maybe? Everything would be great then, eh? Regulate profits maybe? Price freezing maybe? Those solutions sure worked well in the past. How about buying less/none and then there isn't any crying about how much they make. We are addicted and they are the pushers. Them's the facts.

seruzawa 04-22-2006 03:30 AM

Re: The Million Can March!
 
Don't waste you time, dude. EVERYTHING in the world is Bush's fault. Inflation, crime, war, belly button lint, fires, earthquakes, Courtney Love, Gigli........ everything! None of these problems existed until Bush became President? Don't you remember how perfect the world was - a place of peace and harmony with the GPTB and sportbikers arm-in-arm singing 'kumbaya' together?

seruzawa 04-22-2006 03:34 AM

Re: The Million Can March!
 
They also love China's "one child" policy. Ironically these loons are all radical feminists as well, so how do they resolve the fact that incredible numbers of female babies are killed at birth in China as a result of this policy? The thought processes of such people are mind-boggling.

longride 04-22-2006 03:36 AM

Re: The Million Can March!
 
Seattle. Ain't that where they invented the $4.00 cup of coffee? Yeah they sure should bytch about gas prices. Hell, all those smart Blue Staters didn't want war for oil anyway, so they should have stopped shipping oil there two years ago in my opinion. All this just goes to show how spoiled Americans really are. They drive their 10 mpg SUV's to the Starbucks that they could have walked to, and grab their $4.00 coffee that they could have bought for .99 anywhere else, and then complain about high gas prices to their Blue State buddy, all while driving around talking on the cell phone. Fuc&ing Amazing.

longride 04-22-2006 03:38 AM

Re: The Million Can March!
 
How about we all start driving more fuel efficient cars, and only drive when necessary. I bet that action will do more.

fastoldman 04-22-2006 03:45 AM

Jesus H!
 
Once again, I'm in agreement with the forces of evil. I think I feel fine, but something must surely be wrong with me.



Unfortunately, dmorga1, the history of US government is almost completely one of funneling the wealth of the many to the few. Usually there is some nice window dressing to make it sound like robbing the poor is good for good al' Amurikan freedom, or some other lie, but the fact is that our gov't is and has always been just a funnel. In this case, as in many others in recent history, that means the oil companies, and there really is no reason to think applying to one's captors for relief will get it done. All we can do is personally try and wean ourselves, and, my favorite, vote for ANYONE not in office right now. Until we disentangle ALL the connections between money and politics, we are ****ed. End of story. And the most efficient way of achieving this disentanglement is to kick every single incumbent out. Which won't happen, because Americans are too apathetic and refuse to see what's happening in front of them. Next thing you know, we'll probably be dropping nukes on Iran, and the drooling masses will just scream for more blood, rather than seeing their complicity in our national suicide.

MadScientistMatt 04-22-2006 04:34 AM

Re: The Million Can March!
 
But if nobody bought Exxon's gas, no other company would need to compete - they'd raise their prices instead. And if Exxon couldn't sell their gas at profitable prices to consumers, they'd just sell it to the other gas stations and you'd never know.

Casey_Daniel 04-22-2006 04:37 AM

Re: The Million Can March!
 
What are you guys *****ing about? Think about how accepted motorcycle riders will be when more people start realizing that motorcycles are a viable means of transportation. If the general public was that concerned about gas prices they wouldn't be buying SUV's that get 15 mpg or less. Sure I have a gas guzzling truck myself but I try to only drive it when I need it as a truck.

mikenomad 04-22-2006 04:56 AM

Re: The Million Can March!
 
The gas-guzzling Honda Civic only gets 32 mpg, so I'll have to take the bike (40 mpg) with the gas can strapped to the pillion.

ofreen 04-22-2006 05:00 AM

Re: The Million Can March!
 
Whether or not gas prices are in line with what they ought to be becomes beside the point to most people if they think they are being gouged. It certainly looks like we are. People don't like being taken advantage of. If somebody is paying 7 bucks a gallon somewhere else, it just means they are being gouged worse, that's all. The problem with a big increase in fuel prices over a short period is that it causes the price of just about everything else to go up. We can say let market forces set the price, but we have a situation where a relatively small group of guys that are already outrageously rich are raking off even more. That angers people at a fundamental level. The question is whether people will get angry enough to cut down the number of daily trips out the driveway. We'll see, but so far the signal people are sending is that prices can go higher and the oil companies are going to see what the traffic can bear.

mikenomad 04-22-2006 05:02 AM

Re: The Million Can March!
 
I don't actually expect anyone to do anything but continue griping.



The average American will put $100 worth of gas in his Chevy 3500 crew-cab dualie, climb into it (alone) and drive to work.

The_AirHawk 04-22-2006 05:09 AM

Re: The Million Can March!
 
In the UK and EU, VAT is the equivalent of ~60% of that $7.00/gal.

ksquid 04-22-2006 05:10 AM

Re: The Million Can March!
 
LOL good comeback.. longride always restorts to personal attacks..

ksquid 04-22-2006 05:12 AM

Excellent Post
 
Excellent Post. You nailed it..

adamjayp 04-22-2006 05:16 AM

Re: The Million Can March!
 
" interest rates increasing"

Interest rates INCREASE while the economy INCREASES. Thusly, if the economy is doing good, interest rates are HIGH. This is FACT. Check into it, you used Greenspan in your example to look smart, but you can't use facts out of context. Yes interest rates are going up, this is a good thing, not a bad thing.

Anyway, lemme see if I get this right, what your saying is: the economy is doing good, we should be concerned. ... ... I'm not sure this makes much sense, but okay, whatever makes you happier. ;)




sarnali 04-22-2006 06:06 AM

Re: HEY !!
 
I already do that I does that mean I win??



I ride my bike almost everywhere too. Know what's even funnier? when I knocked a punch through the plug in my 80dba HD "Touring" mufflers the gas milage went up.....



Loud Pipes Save Gas .......who'd a thunk?

sarnali 04-22-2006 06:10 AM

Re: The Million Can March!
 
F**K YEAH START THE REVOLUTION....KILL THE RICH.....err, wait a minute....KILL THE ONES THAT ARE RICHER THAN ME.....yeah that's it..




schizuki 04-22-2006 06:59 AM

Re: The Million Can March!
 
"why are the oil companies posting exorbitant RECORD profits?"



Because they're HUGE companies. Their profit MARGIN is around 10%. Hardly exorbitant for any company.



BTW, the real-estate boom has given millions of ordinary Americans a 50-100% per year profit on their homes the past five years. I don't hear anybody saying that's exorbitant.



BTW, can you define "exorbitant" profits? What's the cut-off margin?

schizuki 04-22-2006 07:01 AM

Re: The Million Can March!
 
"arm-in-arm singing 'kumbaya' together?"



ARRRGGGGHHHH!!!!

schizuki 04-22-2006 07:05 AM

Re: The Million Can March!
 
"if they think they are being gouged. It certainly looks like we are."



"Gouging" = high demand, low supply. Free Market Economics 101.



"Price controls" = scarcity.



You want $4.00 gas, or $2.00 gas but empty pumps?




schizuki 04-22-2006 07:07 AM

Re: The Million Can March!
 
The definition of "rich" is "somebody with more money than me."



EVERY person posting on the Internet is rich by world standards. But some are also spoiled and jealous.

schizuki 04-22-2006 07:09 AM

Re: The Million Can March!
 
"We'll see, but so far the signal people are sending is that prices can go higher and the oil companies are going to see what the traffic can bear."



Which makes them different from any other company in what way?



And how does that make them different from homeowners who charge what the market will bear, and have been raking in profit margins the past few years that the oil companies can only dream of?

ofreen 04-22-2006 07:24 AM

Re: The Million Can March!
 
There can be gouging if you have high demand, adequate supply, and a monopoly controlling prices. I don't suggest government price controls, but it would be great if the government enforced its own anti-trust laws. Capitalism works when there is competition. If you think competition isn't being stifled, you are not paying attention.



I said nothing about killing the rich, or even causing them any great discomfort. However, the majority of the rich are not contributing anywhere near what their compensation would indicate. That is also counter to what make capitalism work the way it is supposed to.

m_t_yeo 04-22-2006 07:30 AM

Re: The Million Can March!
 
LOL. You nailed it.



60K USD puts a person in the top 1% of wage earners world-wide and half the world lives on less than 2 USD a day.


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