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Old 04-23-2006, 07:41 AM   #101
m_t_yeo
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Default Re: Excellent Post Again in a competive market profit margins stay the same

So ... a half dozen oil companies acting in concert is a 'free market'?



Sure, and Enron was a charitable organization, too.



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Old 04-23-2006, 08:09 AM   #102
bigdx
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Default Re: Excellent Post Again in a competive market profit margins stay the same

"So ... a half dozen oil companies acting in concert is a 'free market'?"



As a citizen of a socialist nanny-state you illustrate your ignorance of what a free market economy is. The US economy is a free market economy.



US oil companies do not act in concert in the US as that is considered illegal in the US.



"Sure, and Enron was a charitable organization, too"



I have no idea what your point is with this statement. I suspect you have some point but since I have not had full frontal lobotomy I am unable to understand the (lack of) logic of the average inbred Canuck.

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Old 04-23-2006, 08:55 AM   #103
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Default Re: The Million Can March!

.....and take those empty cans, throw 'em over the fence onto the Whitehouse Lawn.....
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Old 04-23-2006, 12:02 PM   #104
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Default Re: Maladg: I thought I already told you to shut up about

One thing has nothing to do with the other. They are only characterized as the same thing by people who don't bother to look into them. Please don't make that mistake.

I don't care what you or Maladg or anyone else thinks about peak oil, but for me, idolizing Simon is cult like behavior, akin to faith in the face of science. Economics is economics, and the economics of declining oil supply is what it is, no matter when it happens. Even the most conservative of commentators, analysts, etc., put the production peak no later than 2025. Technology may take care of the problem, but the economics of the deal doesn't look good, if one bothers to look into it. As a father, the difference between maybe 2005 and 2025 isn't that much.



So yes, I did learn something. And it sounds like it isn't going to help you. Not my kid. Make your own mistakes.



PS I didn't believe Ehrlich then, so this is not a change for me.
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Old 04-23-2006, 12:04 PM   #105
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Default Re: You are forgetting one important thing and the Apollo program

Nice. I'll check it out. I don't particularly believe that we can achieve a free market, but it's a good idea, and I like the motto: anti-war, anti-state, pro-market. Possibly file under 'taint never gonna happen', but I'll check it out.
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Old 04-23-2006, 01:03 PM   #106
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Default Re: The Million Can March!

Lord, almighty, I can't continue! You've misplaced your brain.



1. Your first point certainly doesn't serve you. Profits are WAY up, look in the Wall Street Journal. WTF do "costs of business" have to do with increased profits in this case? Are you going to argue that they have somehow killed off their R&D, marketing, and all other programs, somehow become "leaner and meaner," and generated all this extra profit on the same (actually LESS) volume?! You're on another planet.



2. Exorbitant (learn to spell) is when the CEO of Exxon is compensated 686 million or so over 8 years. And it's getting even better! Save your Adam Smith "people pay what it's worth" crap. This is out of control. You'd like to see us back in the 20's, wouldn't you? Supply and demand worked then, too! Some people just couldn't afford anything.



3. Your argument about homes doesn't make any sense. Using completely unreasonable figures, of course your argument works. No, genius, there are few if any $500 homes. But we do not have a problem with living space supply in this country. We have little control over oil supply because it is manipulated behind the scenes by corporate interests. A man can still build a house.



4. This is the stupidest statement yet. Why wouldn't they charge $50 a gallon? Well, HMMM. . .let's think. What would happen at $50 a gallon? Riots? Probably? Emergency legislation to regulate the prices? Probably. These companies understand you can only steal so much before people get really upset. They're not limited by the economic system, you idiot. They're limited by what they can get away with. People would have to pay unless they stole it.



5. Well, you're not quantifying anything, either, you brilliant theoretician, you. "Fair and honest" is subjective and is assessed via the public view of businesses. Most people agree the oil companies are making too much profit. But then, you would say it's just part of the system. I can't wait until you get jacked by some part of the system and complain. I'll be there to tell you to be self-reliant and to understand it's part of the system.



6. Uh, WTF? To what foundations are you referring? Are the voices in your head inserting non sequiturs again? Most foundation funding doesn't come from Big Oil! The robber barons did lots of good, but look at where a lot of funding comes from now, and it's from entrepreneurs who appear to run more and fair and honest businesses. Take Ronald Burkel, one of the biggest philanthropists in the world. His first business was grocery stores. In the LA riots, his were the only stores not burned down. Why? Because he paid his employees an honest wage and treated his customers right, charging them fair prices--not the highest prices he COULD charge them. He's a billionaire, by the way.



You seem to think the system is wonderful because it is self-regulating, however woefully ineffective it is in certain markets. An unregulated market would have crushed people like you and me entirely by now, which you seem to forget. Markets take a long time to stabilize and regulate themselves, and in the mean time, people suffer disastrous consequences. Caps and controls are often necessary to keep things fair. There are countless (literally) incidents of companies unfairly exploiting and even killing workers, because they could, and because it was profitable. You seem to like these companies. If it weren't for regulation, these companies would be widespread.



The public is not aware enough to be able to fight forces it can't see. We don't get to see what goes on behind the scenes in corporate boardrooms and in closed congressional sessions. All we can do is fight for laws that even things out a bit. A little regulation can go a long way.



But you don't seem interested in making anything other than the most ridiculous arguments with no middle ground. Good luck and good riddance.
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Old 04-23-2006, 02:04 PM   #107
m_t_yeo
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Default Re: Excellent Post Again in a competive market profit margins stay the same

The point is that the US has regulations governing virtually every last transaction that happens in your so-called 'free market'. If it was truly a free market, those wouldn't exist. You have fewer than Canada, true, but you are a long way from none. Companies are leaving the USA to get away from those non-existent regulations every day.



The oil companies don't collude? What a laugher. Check those pump prices about a week before any long weekend.



I'm beginning to think you are a fiction, just like fastoldman suggests. No one could be this gullible, this vacuous or this ill-informed.
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Old 04-23-2006, 02:13 PM   #108
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Default Re: Excellent Post Again in a competive market profit margins stay the same

"No one could be this gullible, this vacuous or this ill-informed."

You haven't been to a Red State lately have you..

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Old 04-23-2006, 02:23 PM   #109
m_t_yeo
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Default Re: The Million Can March!

The Industrial Revolution is a good model of a period where the 'free market' was almost achieved. Other than a few exclusivity agreements (Hudson's Bay in Canada, British East India Company, etc.), there was almost no regulations governing employers. There were no safety standards to speak of, no unions, no such concept as worker's rights, no environmental standards, etc.



With this near-nirvana like business situation, what did you see from employers? 16-18 hour days, people getting chained to their workplaces, deaths and injuries in the workplace being considered normal, aggressive police or military action crushing any dissent, child labour ... and a stream of justifications from the wealthy who had to come up with a myth of the 'greater man' in order to allow themselves to sleep at night.



I suspect that most of us are ordinary folks on this forum. Why would *anyone* who is a worker rather than an owner want to see the return of something like this? You would have to be nuts to blankly trust the capital caste in our society with our collective welfare seeing as the last time we did so, they promptly turned everyone but themselves into near slaves.
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Old 04-23-2006, 02:59 PM   #110
bigdx
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Default Re: Excellent Post Again in a competive market profit margins stay the same

Sorry, I cannot quite tie how US regulations and our free market economy pertain to your notion that Enron was a charitable organization.



No, Enron wasnÂ’t a charitable organization.



Yes, the US has legislation to govern business. Not sure why anybody would consider that to be contrary to a having free market economy, but obviously your ignorance plays a big part here.



"The oil companies don't collude? What a laugher. Check those pump prices about a week before any long weekend."



Mmm, actually prices are determined by demand. Check the prices of toilet tissue. No, these companies are not colluding. They simply sell at a price that the demand for said product allows. (Tip, read up on demand and supply equilibrium – it will blow your mind) Demand liquidity for gas is high and will remain high irrespective of price.



And no, the aliens are not trying to abduct you.



"I'm beginning to think..."



DonÂ’t. All you do is to expose yourself for the ******* you are.



"Â… just like fastoldman suggests. "



Two fudgepackers thinking alike Â… now thatÂ’s a surprise. I bet you 100 to 1 he is a *****y Canuck like you.



"No one could be this gullible, this vacuous or this ill-informed."



LOL, yeah, like I am the ******* trying and to tell foreigners how to run their countries?

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