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Old 04-11-2006, 02:49 PM   #11
ksquid
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Default Washington State does it right.

You have a good point. WA state says if you do take training and you pass the class you don't have to take the riding portion of the DMV test... i.e voluntary but there is an incentive. The training is outsorced to private companies who get audited.. for compliance i.e. so they don't just pass people...
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Old 04-11-2006, 03:18 PM   #12
ksquid
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Default Re: A Brotherhood Against Totalitarian Education

Since I got promoted I don't have time to go... I have to provide cup holder department leadership to the seat tray department... We have seat tray just for you Buz...
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Old 04-11-2006, 03:22 PM   #13
ksquid
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Default Re: Washington State does it right.

However, I like the FAA model... You can get your seat time from any qualified (private company) instructor but you have to pass a FAA check ride...
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Old 04-11-2006, 03:37 PM   #14
ksaathoff
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Default Re: A Brotherhood Against Totalitarian Education

Of coarse.



>The state currently requires a basic

>rider's education coarse for any

>motorcyclist under the age of 21.
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Old 04-11-2006, 05:03 PM   #15
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Default Re: A Brotherhood Against Totalitarian Education

While ABATE of Florida whines about mandatory rider training, ABATE of Colorado has taken a different approach: They provide MSF training through their own program, which is recognized by the state for licensing:
<blockquote>ABATE of Colorado Motorcycle Rider Education, in conjunction with Morgan Community College Continuing Education, held the inaugural Basic Rider Education course for this spring Saturday and Sunday.


Six students received two days of instruction and testing to prepare them for earning their motorcycle endorsements for their drivers' licenses. ABATE (A Brotherhood Active Toward Education) of Colorado is a non-profit 501(c)(3) providing rider education in many locations in Colorado. The classes utilize classroom instruction combined with a large amount of time on the riding range, in this case on the MCC east parking lot, to familiarize students with safe motorcycle operation.
</blockquote>
The Experienced Rider Course is offered too. See the ABATE of CO website for more info, including schedules and online sign-up.
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Old 04-11-2006, 05:37 PM   #16
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Default Re: Washington State does it right.

"WA state says if you do take training and you pass the class you don't have to take the riding portion of the DMV test"

Interesting. Currently, Florida offers the same option. That is how I received my license. So, why complicate things....
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Old 04-11-2006, 05:44 PM   #17
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Default Re: A Brotherhood Against Totalitarian Education

Let's distinguish training from licensing. Respected instructors in many disciplines will confirm that training is only meaningful if repetitively repeated until it becomes a rote reaction. As such, when confronted with sudden stress, as in an accident, the student will fall back on learned rote behavior rather than simply panicing. Unfortunately, failure to repetively practice the skills and reinforcing the behavior, pretty much negates the value of the training. Since mandating realistic repetitive training regimens would essentially tie our entire society into a costly and complex bureaucratic nightmare of continuous schooling, we have all opted in the interest of greasing the economic wheels of progress to accept approximately 60,000 automotive deaths a year as the price we are prepared to pay to be left alone. Licensing on the other hand may be sold to us as propagating socially responsible group standards, but it really has to do exclusively with extending the governments ability to legally extort revenues. To illustrate this clever governmental scam, and on a somewhat simplistic level, we have all somehow rationalized the absurdity of having to pay to park our machines on a public street, which we're already paying multiple exorbitant fees and taxes for as a privilege of just existing. We actually vote for and place people in positions of authority who then abuse us like this in return. But, I digress! Regarding licensing, and in very general terms, show me a self-contented licensee and I'll show you mediocrity, someone who knows how to manipulate the system for his own gain, or a combination of the two. Competent professionals have about as much respect for licensing as they should - none! It's now just seen by the average citizen as a cost of doing business and the route to becoming a dues paying member of some particular club of leverageres. For their part government entities showcase licensing and resulting standardization as a measure of their success in protecting society, while cleverly relieving us of our cash assets, which effectively limits our mobility and purchase decisions - making us cash-poor prisoners of our own making. We really need to think creatively about how to scale back this monster we've created. It will not be satiated until it consumes us all. Incrimental in growth, we tend to not see it happening. As such, it is an insidious cancer and the most fundamental threat to our remaining freedom. And, wasn't freedom from unreasonable taxation what it was all about to begin with. It appears to me that the British may have won, after all. In parting, I'm glad to have contributed to lifting everyone's spirits!
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Old 04-11-2006, 05:52 PM   #18
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Default Re: A Brotherhood Against Totalitarian Education

As iI read it they are against a MANDATORY rider training class being imposed on all riders which riders would be forced to take at some personal expense.

Having had some experience with how this kind of thing can be manipulated into a real harrassment tactic let me paint you a brief scenario.

It starts out as a reasonable thing, say $50, a one day class and its over.

Next thing, its a $100 class, two days long and they don't have enough instructors so the wait time is 6 months.

Then its $150 and you have to take it yearly, they still don't have enough instructors and wait times are longer.

You may think this sounds ridiculous but I can assure you I've seen this sort of thing happen so it is plausible. It may not happen, much depends on the intentions and agenda of those who are pushing for the requirement. It is something to think about though before going off on a knee jerk reaction about how abate opposes safety.
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Old 04-11-2006, 05:56 PM   #19
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Default Re: A Brotherhood Against Totalitarian Education

Licenses to drive, get married, go fishing, to put your vehicle on public highways, and even licenses to give a hair cut! Bravo nesbit. It's time more people woke up and smelled the tax on our morning coffee, and started to demand a reduction in the size and scope of our leviathan government.



To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical.



-Thomas Jefferson

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Old 04-11-2006, 06:00 PM   #20
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Default Re: A Brotherhood Against Totalitarian Education

Good for you Joe. ABATE seems merely to be opposing more government control.



The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.



-H.L. Mencken

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