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bmwdude 03-19-2006 03:03 AM

Re: X-Rated Motorcycle Rally Angers Neighbors.
Re: Dems Vs. Repubs

I agree, I used to be a die hard Republican, I bought into all of the Rush Limbaugh banter.

(in retrospect that was really dumb)

But then we all got to watch what one party did with power once they once they got it.

Two things scare me now:

1) It's not over yet. Iran is out there trying to get us to commit yet again to war. Then there are others just like them all around the world.

2) The blind support either party is getting from what I call 'one issue voters'. Be they anti/pro-abortion, anti/pro-gay, anti/pro-death penalty or what ever. I promise that the repubs or dems either one couldn't care less about these issues, their only goal is to stir up everyoneÂ’s passions on the subjects so theyÂ’ll have the support to follow their own agendas.

IÂ’m truly not sure what the answer is. The only thing I am sure of is the fact neither of our current parties has it.

rsk173 03-19-2006 06:04 AM

Re: X-Rated Motorcycle Rally Angers Neighbors.
i guess i don't know why for a second you were thinking i was saying anything but my admiration for the troops. i'm 32 so i don't know what vietnam was like for returning soldiers. i know that anyone spitting on them would get a violent reaction from me. as far as your appology below, it's unnecessary. hope your family is safe.

The_Aerodynamic_Head 03-19-2006 07:12 AM

Re: Fair Enough.
Buzz, Longride, all you other MO lifers: you can see what's coming...skip to the end. For those who apparently don't know me...

Oh, goodness, this is going to take awhile.

FIRST, ad hominem invective is the least logical of any kind of argument. Your claim that 1) these comments are "out-of-character" and 2) that they are uneducated both speak to your utter ignorance of me as a person. Though logic does not require it, I shall enlighten you on a bit of personal history. I have travelled extensively in Europe, including a stay of about five months in Nice, three in Moscow (with several trips to petersburg...good art, even if it was mostly stolen from the west), and a constant assignment of not less than two years outside of Naples. Add to this trips of a week or a weekend to most other places. I love Bath, Vatican City, Malta, and especially Lisbon, though I have never gotten the hang of Portuguese, not one bit. I regret only that I was not yet a licenced motorcyclist when there. Alas!

SECOND. The basis of my serious argument is always classical philosophy, which has given rise to traditional morality, because that is the basis of the Masters' degree I have earned and the Ph.D. I'm working on. In other words, I am attemting to argue from what is "right", whereas you seem to argue for what is merely "legal." The confluence of the two ought not be presupposed.

TO WIT: The medical question of infant mortality does not bear on morality, decadent or otherwise. Infant mortality is *not* a "conventional" criteria of the moral status. But the ethical and philosop[hical implications of abortion *are* such a criteria, which handily explains your mention of teenage pregnancy, as western Europe has, per capita, an abortion rate almost nine times that of the U.S. That is to say, teenage pregnancy is less a "problem" in Europe because rather than dealing with the "problem", it is simply and merely eliminated.

Warmongering: I hear this one a lot from Eupropaeans grasping at the moral high ground in their desire to look down their collective noses at America. This one is interesting because it displays an abominable lack of knowledge of Europaean history on the part of Europaeans themselves. Notwithstanding stone-age tribal warfare is some parts of Africa and the Middle East, Europe has the most constant stream of armed conflict of any major civilization in the world. It has fairly been said that Europe's greatest and most lasting donation to the world has been the obliteration or malformation of entire continents in the name of Continental oneupsmanship and Imperial psoturing. Here we may place a worthy word about psychotic despots. Most Europaeans, being socialists in sentiment if not in actual affiliation, , hate American Republicans on general principle. But think what they will of George W. Bush (and I'm not exactly a fan myself) he has thus far failed to massacre millions of his own citizens from paranoic megalomaniacism, like, say, Musolini, Lenin AND Stalin, the infamous Hitler. The Iberian dictators never measured up in this score; Oliviera and Franco only murdered hundreds of thousands. THAT'S moral decadence, sir, invented in Europe, perfected byt Euorpaean practicing on one another, and exactly the most prolific export of Europe.

And while I'm at it, America was cruizing right along in the early 20th century, minding its own business, when Spanish partissans of Cuba blew up one of its naval vessels, the Maine. Does your charge of American "warmongering" stem from the fact the apparent fact that we are simply better at self-defense than you?

And a bit later in the 20th c., America was again in semi-isolationist and self-protective mode, happily trading away, when German warmongery, in the person of a classical Europaean Psychotic Despot, sunk a passenger pleasure cruiser, loaded with American civilians. "Unrestricted submarine warfare" they called it. In another ocean, yet another Psychotic Dictator, who had learned to kill hundreds of thousands of his own citizens for poilitical dissent (a lesson he had recently learned from Europaean political and military advisors, mostly French and English) blew up our island, in a unprovoked act of Europaean-style warmongery, stemming from a pact with a Europaean state.

And where would *you* be "Senor" Ruiz, if America had not given up with keeping to its own continent in 1914 and 1942? Perhaps living under an actual fascism, instead of lobbing invective at what you lauighingly call fascist, simply because it's not positively socialist, yes?

You might notice a pattern here. A Europaean nation massacres our people without cause: we fight, and gain our freedom. A Euopaean power blows up our ship: we fight, and gain much of Mexico and the Phillipines. A Euorpaean country unprovokedly bombs our ports (military and civilian): we fight back, destroying both the ability and the will of that people to continue to war on us. A Middle Eastern power, long under the influence of Europaean imperialists, blows up our buildings: we fight back, attempting (now in a softer way) to help them see the futility of trying to destroy us, and helping them see the benfits of American friendship. (History shows this never works. The only way to prevent an agressor from continuing to agress is to destroy either his ability or his will to wage war.)

The Lesson: Leave the U.S.A. alone, and she will not feel forced to waste her money, time, or sons bombing you back into the Stone Age.

So *if* the U.S. is "warmongering", well, we learned it by watching you.

Drugs: You seem to imply the decadence of the US because of its consumption of controlled substances, if I read you rightly. Fair enough, we do consume more than any other industrialised nation in cocaine and the newer "designer" drugs. We have long since been outstripped in marijuana, heroin, and opium consumption by Europe, Asia, and the Middle East respectively. I would argue that the charge of moral decline lies heaviest upon the culture that accepts and leagalizes, that is the culture that lies down before the scourge (allowing their Citizenry to slide headlong into self-destruction), rather than attempting to fight the scourge of uncontroled narcotics. America also spends more on funding rehab than any other nation on Earth.

Murders and Rapes: Every serious sociological study of the past thirty years or so has found that violent crime is almost directly proportional to the heterogenaity of a culture. Europe is ethnically and culturally almost homogenous these days. You will note please that violent crimes are on the rapid rise in those Europaean nations that have resorted to an increase in immigration to counteract falling birth rates, esp. France and England (Russia doesn't count, it's ALWAYS been riddled with huge rates of violent crime). In America, we fight against violent crime, hence the death penalty. In Europe, you elect your violent crimials to public office,

YOUR WOMEN: in short, they are gross. They refrain from shaving not only their legs, but also their armpits and their upper lips. No amount of haute couture can mitigate this. Your phrase "Easy Virtue" is an oxymoron. In America we can still differenciate between *****s and wives...for this we have "gentlemen's clubs", whereas Europe seems to have lost the distinction. See? Now *that's* an ad hominem statement...if you must leave behind rational discourse, Mr. Ruiz, do it with flair.

And here's another: Decadence? Southern Europe still dances to disco. Case closed. The most worthwhile thing to issue from Spain in the last half-century is Ricardo Montalban.

The_Aerodynamic_Head 03-19-2006 07:26 AM

First, I have never made an comment against your person or your intelligence, and yet, with each and every single comment, you insist on an ad hominem attack against me. It is un-called for, inappropriate to rational discourse, and unbecoming a self-professed enlightened individual.

My patience with you is wearing thin, boy. You purposefuly misread my comments and force them into a political discussion when I was merely using examples to illustrate a brief point. That my examples are eaasily politicised does not mean that it is best for you to do so.

It is not enough to read must read CAREFULLY.

I did NOT say nudity is immoral. I said it has no moral basis or underpinning. In other words, it makes no moral statement one way or the other. Neo-Nazism does.

My statement was a lament that American culture seems to be focusing its cultural effort increasingly on things of little or no moral import, rather than on things that do have ethical and moral consequence. In this case, the attempt to ban nudity trumps questions of the appropriateness of allowing Nazis and the Klan to march. I don't claim to be an authority on such questions, but I do think we ought to be asking them.

The_Aerodynamic_Head 03-19-2006 07:31 AM

Pay attention.
This is like me saying that perhaps your handle stems from the fact that you sodomize your Valkyrie's exhaust pipes.

In point of fact, I'm not a Neo-anything, ideologically speaking. My background is classical philosophy and literature. I'm no more a Republican than you are.

BTW, it cuz I be bald, Cletus.

ValkBandit 03-20-2006 05:14 AM

Re: Pay attention.
hey ... once you do a valk exhaust you never go back. plus when i owned my valk, she never had a headache ...

anrajala 03-29-2006 12:51 PM

Re: Fair Enough.
Damn I travelled and missed a good argument. Aerohead, are you still following this? I would like to reply

- cruiz-euro

sean11 05-01-2006 06:48 AM

Re: Fair Enough.
Let me add some fuel to the fire. There is a difference between what we have a right to do and doing what is right. I believe there is a God, and right and wrong are determined by HIM. it's his planet, we are his creatures. Every other opinion about right and wrong is exactly that, man's opion. And we all have one of those. One of our biggest problems worldwide today is that we all seem to think that if we think it's ok, then it's ok. that's why we have 9/11, columbine (insert your own reprehensible act here) moral relativism leads to a general decline. the old saying 7 years from sin to acceptance certainly applies. Things that were unheard of when I was a kid are now commonplace. and I'm only 34. what kind of a world will we live in when I am 80? So, I've put the target up, flame on and fire away! By the way, I will always include under God in our pledge, our nation was founded by christians, not posturing congressmen.

sean11 05-01-2006 07:05 AM

God decides what we debate
I've said it before, I'll say it again. GOD decides what's right and wrong. if you don't beieve in GOD, right and wrong lose their meaning entriely, then we all decide for ourselves, and that's when the trouble starts. Europe has by and large forgotten GOD, and we are close behind. like Rome, moral relativism leads to moral decline. without GOD, there is no yardstick for morality. Hence argument without consensus, division, decline, and ultimate failure. Hey, have a good day! by the way, still trying to figure out what ad hominem means :-)

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