Go Back   Motorcycle Forum > Motorcycle.Com General Discussion > Motorcycle News > Old News > Misc News

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-10-2005, 07:38 AM   #61
sportbikebandit
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,072
Default Re: Deaths up since Florida helmet law repealed

"In the institute's report, the motorcycle-crash death rate increased 25 percent in the two years after Florida's law changed, growing from 30.8 deaths to 38.8 deaths per 1,000 crashes."



It's a rate dude.... The only factor that changed significantly was the helmet law. Your analysis doesn't pass the common sense sanity check..



I would argue that motorcycles are getting safer. Better brakes, tires, etc...



sportbikebandit is offline   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links Remove Advertisements
Motorcycle Forum
Advertisement
Old 08-10-2005, 07:47 AM   #62
JasonS
Founding Member
 
JasonS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 3
Default Re: Deaths up since Florida helmet law repealed

Err... bone heads.. .



Did anyone compare the NUMBER of motorcycles, compared to the NUMBER of deaths...



In FL the number of MC's rose at a rate that was higher than that of deaths. The repealing of the helmet law had NO EFFECT on the deaths statistic at all.



So the question is, what is the motivation for warping the impression the public now has about motorcycles and deaths, as a result of this lop-sided study?



JasonS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2005, 07:50 AM   #63
bikervince
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 126
Default Re: One

"Factoid:

New motorcycle registrations in Florida spiked from 219,000 in 2000 to 417,000 last year - a 91 percent jump, according to the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles. "





From the article:

"Florida's repeal of its mandatory helmet law in 2000, 933 motorcyclists were killed, an 81 percent increase from the 515 bikers killed from 1997 to 1999."



In fact, the statistics from Florida prove NOTHING. It DOES NOT show any cause-and-effect between helmet-wearing and fatalities. A 91% increase in moto-registrations leads to %81 increase in deaths. (By those stats, you could perversely argue that helmet use increases deaths, but I'll leave that one for the professional trolls)



This DOES NOT support the opening statement in the CNN article:

"Motorcycle fatalities have risen sharply in Florida since the state repealed its mandatory helmet law."

bikervince is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2005, 07:51 AM   #64
Solace
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 16
Default Re: Deaths up since Florida helmet law repealed

1. So if its incalculable, let's ignore it.... Besides I don't think it's that hard to calculate if the effort was made, and of course recognizing that these things invariably are estimates and are often times relative. Does that make them less meaningful, on an absolute scale yes, but relative, certainly not. A dead rider is indeed likely to be cheaper, but the statistic we are missing are the relative severities of the injuries between helmeted versus non-helmeted riders. If in fact the non-helmeted riders are almost gauranteed to be killed and not incur injuries requiring heavy health care costs, well then no helmets from that argument is the way to go, ignoring productivity losses.



2. If medical care in the US was purely private and based on free market principals, the fact remains that a debilitated rider is a loss of a productive member of society not to mention the injured rider may be more likely to fall into the social security net and thus cost taxpayers money again down the road, beyond health care costs, and beyond the losses to the countries productivity associated with the removal of their ability to labour. This isn't just about health care costs.



Solace
Solace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2005, 07:53 AM   #65
theDuke
Founding Member
 
theDuke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 94
Default Re: Deaths up since Florida helmet law repealed

One of the first paragraphs in the article states:



[i]The first, by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, found that in the three years following Florida's repeal of its mandatory helmet law in 2000, 933 motorcyclists were killed, an 81 percent increase from the 515 bikers killed from 1997 to 1999.[i]



This is not a "rate" based on miles travelled, which went up 25% according to a NHTSA study quoted later in the article. You know which percentage will be quoted the most often by the media... don't you?



The fact that health care costs (in raw dollars) for injured motorcyclists about doubled in the 30 months following the repeal of the law in FL shouldn't come as a surprise... I think health care costs in general have been going up about 30% every single year regardless of motorcycle helmet laws. Even so, if one takes the raw increase in the number of deaths (81%) and compares it to a 50% increase in raw health care costs, wouldn't one assume that helmetless riders actually cost less to treat... probably more DOA? Of course, this ignores the injuries and the article doesn't tell us about the raw number of motorcycle accidents... they may have likely gone up during the same period of time due to the increase in riders in FL as an earlier post indicated.



This reminds me of a story I just saw about a Volvo that ran a stop sign and creamed a newly-restored Duesenberg killing three people in Michigan. The media outcry was about the Duesenberg (built in the early 1930s) not having seat belts. They said nothing about the Volvo driver that hit the huge classic car hard enough to roll it over 5 times.



Looking at these statistics about injuries while ignoring other factors like increased traffic in most cities, increased use of larger vehicles with poor visibility like SUVs, increased cell-phone use while driving, etc. is silly. Seems to me that the skill levels of drivers have been decreasing (less driver training due to school budget cuts, law enforcement of speed traps rather than stupid driving...) while the number of distractions (cell phones, in-car entertainment centers...) have increased.



I could just have easily have taken the Duesenberg story and created an outcry to ban Volvos rather than try to require retrofitting of seatbelts into classic cars that are very rarely even driven.



In any case, I live in CA where I don't have a choice about wearing a helmet but I still choose to wear a full-face helmet and armored clothing when I ride.







theDuke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2005, 07:56 AM   #66
Solace
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 16
Default Re: One

Then presumably we should be seeing a steady increase in automobile fatalaties after all the numbers of cars on the road was increasing. Your right its not that simple, but which corresponded more closely with the increase in fatalaties, the rise in ridership levels or the removal of the helment law?



Solace
Solace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2005, 07:57 AM   #67
sportbikebandit
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,072
Default Re: Deaths up since Florida helmet law repealed

"In the institute's report, the motorcycle-crash death rate increased 25 percent in the two years after Florida's law changed, growing from 30.8 deaths to 38.8 deaths per 1,000 crashes."



So you didn't read this stat...
sportbikebandit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2005, 07:58 AM   #68
edward44
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 281
Default Re: Wondering who was going to bring that up...

I suggest you read your policy-carefully. I would be willing to bet its PIP covers only pedestrians you hit and not you and your passenger.



If so, I would be sure your medical policy at work does not exclude costs from a motorcycle accident. Some do and a measure in the US Senate to prevent that exclusion is in the works but I don't know if it got past the extremest Rupublican House.



The Congress and the President did change the personal bankruptsy laws to make it more difficult to declare bankruptsy. This will hit hardest those who have run up huge medical bills and cannot pay so they will remain indentured servants for life. This will land most heavily in the red states so serves them right I say.



Another interesting item is the pro-life machine:

will they allow pulling the plug on a brain dead biker thus saving everyone a lot of money?



As to having a couple of years to pay off the medical bill, my 7 days stay ran to $30k.



The idea of a civilized (and very wealthy) nation not accepting the notion of shared risk for

universal medical coverage is disgusting. It's going to come as someone must pay the bill unless you just want to roll the patient out the door on a gurney to the parking lot because he/she can't pay.
edward44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2005, 08:03 AM   #69
svo68
Registered Member
 
svo68's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 100
Default Re: Deaths up since Florida helmet law repealed

i thought the other guy summed it up
svo68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2005, 08:06 AM   #70
majin_ssj_eric
Founding Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1
Default Re: Deaths up since Florida helmet law repealed

What we have here is just another idiotic rant from one of the liberal "The government is the answer to everything" crowd. First off, if you honestly think that instituting a helmet law is going to lower your insurance rates then you are an idiot. Period. Rates only go up, they never go down appreciably. Second, I don't care one bit about any moron that doesn't want to wear a helmet. Screw 'em. The only one they are hurting is themselves (how you can come to the conclusion that not wearing a helmet can injure others is simply beyond me). I don't care if its your dad, brother, son, whatever. If they died because they were more interested in looking cool than in protecting their obviously malfuntioning brain, then they got what they had coming. You libs just mystify me. It is not the government's responsibility to protect us from our own stupidity. If you don't want to wear a helmet that is absolutely fine by me. I won't lose a second's sleep over your little trip to the morgue. I'd suggest you stop worrying so much about what other people do and just worry about yourself. By the way, nice cheap shot on Jeb Bush; its typical of you guys. You can't beat the guy in an election so you resort to calling him stupid. Truly the response of the enlightened......
majin_ssj_eric is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off