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Old 08-11-2005, 10:49 AM   #221
BMW4VWW
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Default Re: Deaths up since Florida helmet law repealed

"Libertarianism is the tyranny of the mighty."

Apparently you know little of the creed of Libertarianism, which grants maximum freedom to the individual while respecting the rights of others.

Perhaps you've confused Libertarianism with anarchy. Sorry I missed all of the fun this morning, but I was foolishly wasting my time riding a motorcycle, with a helmet on BTW. VWW
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Old 08-11-2005, 10:57 AM   #222
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Default Re: Deaths up since Florida helmet law repealed

They owned slaves is a particularly specious argument in Franklin's case, as he was the head of the Pennsylvania Abolishinist Society. VWW
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Old 08-11-2005, 02:33 PM   #223
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Default Re: Deaths up since Florida helmet law repealed

It looks good on you. I don't pick up my new bike until the 20th, so I'm currently without a steed.



I know the Libertarian creed pretty well, but just like Communism, Capitalism and any other 'ism', the reality very rarely matches the creed. I think that a lot of Libertarians think exactly like you describe, but I think that a lot of them also use Libertarianism as their justification for 'getting away with things'.



I had a Libertarian in my hometown - a very vocal guy. When it came time to pave the road to his small subdivision, he used his beliefs to justify why he wasn't going to pay for his share. He didn't need the road and didn't respect that the rest of the subdivision was violating his freedom of choice by attempting to force him to pay. Of course, he didn't pay and to this day still drives on that road without having paid a cent towards it.



Of course, not all Libertarians are like this, but ...
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Old 08-11-2005, 02:47 PM   #224
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Default Re: Deaths up since Florida helmet law repealed

Yes, everyone dies, but to call psychological damage 'crap' is pretty mean-spirited. If a tough as nail's soldier can come home from a war zone a shell of a man, then why is it so hard to believe that seeing something just as gruesome on your local roadway would cause damage in the same vein?



Obviously, you grew inured to it in your job, but that was your routine, right? Ordinary folks don't see that every day, do they.
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Old 08-11-2005, 02:49 PM   #225
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Default Re: A Breath of Fresh Air and the GPTB

It is twice now that you and I agreed on something. The planets must be in alignment somewhere. Buy some lotto tickets, is my advice.
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Old 08-11-2005, 02:52 PM   #226
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Default Re: m_t_yeo is the man, Glad he is here...

It seems to be a good system and it goes hand in hand with a scaled system to wean people off of cars when they are seniors. The eye tests and reactions tests get much more frequent when you are a senior and they see graduated licences in reverse - removing night driving, removing driving at really busy times of the day, etc.
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Old 08-15-2005, 06:20 AM   #227
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Default Re: Deaths up since Florida helmet law repealed

Darwin is still a genius!
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Old 08-15-2005, 09:53 AM   #228
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Default Re: OK guys time for a Statistics lesson

yep. it was a data dump.



know something else? So are the stats provided to do the original analysis that the government did.



I've performed a lot of crash analysis in the state of Kentucky, for various transportation studies; crash analysis is something that's done whenever a study is performed on a section of roadway, to find out if the crashes are a result of the existing geometrics (aka, the road needs fixed), or if there is something else at play. One thing that is UNIVERSAL in any crash analysis, when you're dealing with large samples, is that there is NEVER a conclusive statement that you can get from the crash results.



Crash studies are based solely on the police report of the crash. Police reports give the option for 1)Type of crash (single vehicle, multiple vehicle), 2)Direction of crash (head-on, sideswipe, rear end), 3)time of day and site conditions (sunny, overcast, raining, night), 4)severity of crash (injury or death), 5) speeding (yes or no, if yes, est. over posted limit), 7) helmet/seatbelt (yes or no, depending on vehicle type) and 6) alcohol? (yes or no). That's pretty much it. Sure, there are written lines where an officer can add in more information, but that is NOT looked at, when doing an analysis. Why? Because nobody wants to pay someone to sit and write out every single "other" option in the story. And not only that, they can vary so much, it's not useful in a statistical analysis. Statistics deals w/ numbers, not "other". So what that means is, the statistical results can't get to the root of the cause of the crash and/or result. It can't link a cause and effect. The raw data doesn't supply that information.



But here's what you can get from crash analysis. If you have a particular highway that records 70% crashes at night, and the state average is 30% at night, then you can assume there is something about the geometrics of the roadway that are causing more crashes at night. What you can't conclude is that anything having to do with the vehicles and/or drivers, caused the crash. You can't even assume WHAT about the roadway is causing the crash. You don't have the information.



Another example of an analysis that happens a lot are rear end crashes. Let's say you have a stretch of road that 5 years ago, 10% of the crashes were rear-ends. But now, traffic volumes are up 50%, and rear end crash percentage is up to 25% of crashes. What could be assumed from those numbers, assuming everything else has stayed the same? Not a whole lot of anything. All a crash analysis can do is recommend turn lanes, and that turn lanes "may" decrease rear-ends. Will they? Don't know for sure. Are the turn movements really what's causing the increase in rear-end crashes? Don't know for sure. Why?? Because the raw data doesn't allow for a conclusive answer. It's just not there. You can't read into the numbers; they really aren't saying anything.



It's this same faulty logic that insists the fatality rate and the helmet laws are linked together hand-in-hand. You CAN'T make this leap, based on the data you've got to analyze the crashes. The general public doesn't know this sort of thing. But it's true. The data can't be warped into this type of assumption/conclusion correctly, because the crash data from the scene of a crash does not collect enough information to make a conclusion.



This is why we need a new, thorough, comprehensive crash analysis of motorcycles. Why are deaths going up? For that matter, why did they go down in the 1990s? Why is the crash rate going up? Is it helmet use? Helmet use isn't going to make crash rates go up, or down. So that can't be it. This isn't a black and white subject. As of right now, there's not a dyam thing that can be concluded from the current crash analysis, other than the overall #s, and the %'s are going up.



There is no conclusive evidence, either way, that links helmet use/laws to an increase in fatality rates. Maybe a new study will link them, somehow, but as of right now, they can't be linked. It's very faulty logic to link them together.
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Old 08-15-2005, 09:57 AM   #229
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Default Re: 212 POSTS!!!???

I have new socks on!
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