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m_t_yeo 08-10-2005 05:11 PM

Re: A Breath of Fresh Air and the GPTB
I'm beginning to see your m.o.

Take a perfectly reasonable proposition:

"Perhaps a helmet law should be enacted. Contrary to what some people believe, their actions don't happen in vacuum and they do actually affect people."

and extend it logically to some ridiculous and utterly implausible extension of the propostion:

"On the basis of your 'logic' we can slaughter children who get rheumatic fever because of the inevitable 'costs' to society"

That's a pretty weak way of arguing. It COULD be abused, so we shouldn't even consider even a reasonable application of the proposition. Well, that rules out pretty much every theory in existence, doesn't it?

m_t_yeo 08-10-2005 05:18 PM

Re: These threads always....
I actually agree with you.

I'm playing Devil's Advocate to stir up the hardcore individualists who start banging their spears against their shields the minute anything sounding like 'governmental interference' shows up. Too many hardcore individualists forget that there are other people in this world, to be honest. It helps to remind them of that fact sometimes. Consider my posts on this topic to be just that - a reminder.

Personally, I like that some folks don't wear helmets. Society honestly needs idiots without any sense of self-preservation. They serve a vital role in cautionary education that would disappear if the government kept everyone safe 'for their benefit'. As it sits, I tell me son when we see someone without a helmet that the reason *I* wear one is so that I come back alive to spend more time with him. How could I have these great father-son moments without the idiots riding around without safety equipment?

m_t_yeo 08-10-2005 05:20 PM

Re: You need some coffee dude
***** ... I forgot all about Bush. I just knew he had to be involved in something this stupid. ;)

m_t_yeo 08-10-2005 05:33 PM

Re: Deaths up since Florida helmet law repealed
First off ... whose quote? I like it.

Secondly, you can use this quote to justify the removal of all safety legislation ever created, logically.

m_t_yeo 08-10-2005 05:36 PM

A Call to All Real Men!
Don't you get tired of endlessly proving why women live longer than men? We do dangerous things, dangerously, and then wonder why they live a decade longer than we do, on average.

Take away that giant spike of idiot kids killing themselves with all manner of stupidity and take away wars ... and, heck, we might even pull even.

I'm even thinking of putting my helmet on right now. You never know when a falling airplane part is going to rocket through my living room.

yoavy11 08-10-2005 05:42 PM

Re: Deaths up since Florida helmet law repealed
Holly $hit, talk about people with extra time on their hands.

You guys squeezed this topic like..., wow.

yoavy11 08-10-2005 05:54 PM

Re: A Call to All Real Men!
Funny, but I'm afraid no helmet will help you.

I saw a fin off the tail of an exploded patriot missile after it dropped in a plastic parts factory a while ago, came through the roof and made a hole 3" deep in the concrete floor. Lucky it was after hours. Another part of the same missile knocked down a 20' tree.

gniewko 08-10-2005 06:10 PM

Re: You need some coffee dude
I'm not missing that logic. I agree that repealing helmet laws most likely did increase the fatality rate. I can come to that conclusion because the following argument makes sense:

- No helmet laws, so a larger % of people ride without a helmet.

- Therefore a larger % of crashers are helmetless.

- Helmets can keep you from dying, so the above points indicate that the fatality rate would go up.

But - and this is my main point - you can't draw that conclusion (that repealing the helmet law resulted in a higher fatality rate) based on the statistics that were cited in that article. There simply isn't enough information to draw that conclusion based on the data.

And the article strongly suggested, through misuse of statistics, that the data itself proves that lack of helmet laws resulted in a higher fatality rate. That's simply not true, and the writer is either an innumerate moron or an anti-motorcycle hack. Or both.

gniewko 08-10-2005 06:14 PM

Re: You need some coffee dude
Yeah, but I'm not arguing with that. Instinctively I agree that repealing helmet laws boosted the fatality rate. I'm just saying that this isn't shown in the data cited. My argument is about the misuse and misunderstanding of statistics, not about whether or not helmets save lives. I know they do that.

gniewko 08-10-2005 06:20 PM

Re: Deaths up since Florida helmet law repealed
Yes, I agree. That was indeed what I was saying - that new riders tend to be involved in more severe crashes and dying at higher rates than experienced riders.

As you said, it is possible to control for that variable. But the stats cited in that article didn't do that. So regardless of what you think about helmets, you can't claim that the data cited shows anything about the effect of the helmet law repeal.

As I said earlier, I'm arguing about the stupid misuse of statistics in that article, not about the efficacy of helmets.

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