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Old 08-10-2005, 02:34 PM   #161
m_t_yeo
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Default Re: Deaths up since Florida helmet law repealed

I think you should care. Some of those trips to the morgue aren't paid for by the estate of the deceased because there isn't enough money. Who pays for that? You, me and everyone else who pays taxes and insurance. If another vehicle was involved, we pay more. If someone else was injured, then we pay again.



Fatalities are likely cheaper than accidents for the rest of society to bear, but bear them we do. All riders and drivers have a vested interest in reducing the incidence of both. Sometimes that means legislating for people's stupidity.
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Old 08-10-2005, 02:39 PM   #162
m_t_yeo
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Default Re: Deaths up since Florida helmet law repealed

A five star SUV tends to save the lives of the driver and the passengers, but drastically increases the likelihood of fatality in the OTHER vehicles involved. One of the neat things about bikes is that while they are pretty dangerous for the rider, they don't pose much risk for anyone else - a true individual's machine for someone with a conscience.
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Old 08-10-2005, 02:57 PM   #163
sportbikebandit
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Default Re: You need some coffee dude

Sorry I am not getting my point acros this guy explains it better than I the wise one...
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Old 08-10-2005, 03:00 PM   #164
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Default Sorry longride.

Sorry I am not getting my point across this guy explains it better than I the wise one...



I'll look at your Illinois stuff next... I enjoy arguing with you longride, I do respect your intelligence and experience...Sorry if that doesn't come through all the time in the heat of battle.
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Old 08-10-2005, 03:08 PM   #165
m_t_yeo
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Default Re: You need some coffee dude

Here is the logic I think you are missing.



You can't logically say that removing mandatory protective gear from around the most important organ in your body had zero effect on this statistic. It may not have had 100% of an effect to the point where you could inequivocally say that the helmet law caused all those extra deaths, but it is guaranteed to have had some effect even if only one single, solitary rider died because he wasn't wearing a helmet.



Study after study covering sports to workplace accidents to traffic accidents all show that wearing a helmet of any sort saves at least some lives each year. I 100% guarantee you that someone died as a part of that statistic because they had no helmet on.







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Old 08-10-2005, 03:41 PM   #166
BMW4VWW
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Default Re: Deaths up since Florida helmet law repealed

I believe your confusing Benjamin Franklin with George Washinton, of one of the other founders that freed thier slaves. If you have some reference to Franlin's slave ownership please send me a link. VWW
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Old 08-10-2005, 03:45 PM   #167
m_t_yeo
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Default Re: One

A good statistician will see a spike like this and look for the context. What changed in this period that could logically have afffected this stat? He or she would draw up a list of potential suspects (helmet law, increased ridership, increased percentage of newbies, increased cc of bikes on road, decreased road quality under budget cutbacks, etc.) and start to do follow up studies to see where the greatest effect lies.



The point is that they logically ALL have an effect and this is why they are the 'usual suspects' in the first place. The question is not whether the repeal of the law had an effect - it did - but whether it was a big enough effect that we need to start thinking about re-enacting the law. Public money will always be spent to increase overall safety on the roads, but our public servants need to know where to put it to best effect. For this reason, we need to look at all the changes that had an effect and narrow it down to the most salient.



It is economic triage, in a way.
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Old 08-10-2005, 04:02 PM   #168
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Default Re: A Breath of Fresh Air and the GPTB

It is the ARGUMENT that is flawed. Wether one helmetless rider or ten thousand are killed it is still not the job of government to tell people what they can or can't do with their own bodies. Let me put this in Clintonese so that you might grasp it. It's the FREEDOM stupid. VWW
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Old 08-10-2005, 04:10 PM   #169
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Default Re: Deaths up since Florida helmet law repealed

"Wanting the government to outlaw certain bad-for-you things while expecting your favorite bad-for-you thing to remain protected is... well.. stupid."

Couldn't have put it any better myself, maybe not as good. VWW
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Old 08-10-2005, 04:30 PM   #170
m_t_yeo
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Default Re: Deaths up since Florida helmet law repealed

"Your freedom to swing your fist ends at the tip of my nose."



My science teacher in grade 6, instructing on ethics and why we have laws enacted in society.



As long as you live around other people, there will always be limits to your behaviour, even if they aren't written down and codified into 'laws'. Your notion of freedom inevitably rubs up against someone else's notion of freedom and conflict arises. Because of this, every single society in the history of the world, from wolf packs to whale pods to bee colonies to human villages has some set of 'rules' that they abide by so that they can continue to function as a unit. They will always be there no matter how someone may long for the 'freedom' that they never had in the first place. You remove the rules and the 'society' ceases to exist because the rules ARE the society.



Even strict libertarianism has to assume the presence of social controls, even if they don't want to call them laws because to them, 'laws' always infringe on personal rights. Kill someone in a society without laws and the people who cared about your victim may just kill you right back. Voila, instant social control, whether there was a law in place to say that 'murder' was wrong at all.



So ... don't like limits to your freedom? Don't live in society. Libertarianism is the tyranny of the mighty. Dictatorship is the tyranny of the one. Republics are the tyranny of the few. Democracies are the tyranny of the many. You can't escape tyranny, just shift how much there is and who gets to exercise it.
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