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Old 08-10-2005, 11:44 AM   #131
Solace
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Default Re: Deaths up since Florida helmet law repealed

Hehe... You're missing the point and getting personal. The point isn't whether the helmet law is right or wrong, the point is it's a values judgement, so lets call it what it is. No where did I indicate in any of my comments where we specifically should or shouldn't draw the line (though I imagine my overall tone is in favour of helmets). I ride a motorcycle....so obviously I recognize the balance between personal choice and risk, both to your person, and to society. The whole point of what I've tried to get across in my rambling posts is when you argue a point on the basis of personal freedom, you need to have a good look around at all the personal freedom you don't have. To say my comments indicate I'm forwarding some Solace run "Eutopia of Safety" is ridiculous. Pull the blinders off folks, as I've said before, you're not free..... there's a million and one laws proving that fact, and half them based on the very premises being put forth to make a helmet mandatory. Does that mean one more intrusion on personal freedom is right, no, but there is a lot more to this than ones freedom, and I would suggest any argument based purely on that is myopic. To everyone who argued the statistics and questioned the numbers, kudos, that's the place to start so at least everyone has an agreed upon common ground to make the judgement, then we can try to make a reasonable choice on whether the loss of freedom outweighs the other prices.



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Old 08-10-2005, 11:44 AM   #132
NataHarli
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Default Re: Deaths up since Florida helmet law repealed

From longride:

Yes bikes are more dangerous than cars"



Then your argument begins and ends there.




OK, let's carry your logic a little further. Walking out your door is going to lead to exposing yourself to more dangers than if you had just stayed in your house. So, since it's more dangerous leaving your house would you choose to spend the rest of your life indoors?



We all are exposed to many dangers every day. I don't mind paying in some little way (e.g. increased insurance costs) when someone has taken all reasonable precautions and still participates in something that is "dangerous". Like those who ride motorcycles and practice ATGATT or those in cages who have their safety belts properly fastened. ***** happens and we can't avoid all possible dangers, just take sensible precautions.
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Old 08-10-2005, 11:54 AM   #133
Solace
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Default Re: One

I'm smart...Ah shucks, I'm blushing =P



I've no idea what caused the spike in deaths in Illinois, I don't live there and haven't researched it, and regardless we weren't dealing with that state. Again, you brought up the question of the causal relationship, not me, and I certainly don't know, but if you're intend on making statements like:



"Does anyone think that a 91% jump in registrations might also create a 91% jump in accidents and fatalities? Nah. I guess CNN didn't have the time to report this. The "stunning" jump in deaths is all they had space for. "



Expect to be questioned, as it seems like you're certainly taking a position on what might have caused the deaths, or did I mistake your sarcasm for carefully considered questioning of the article and its statistics?



To be honest, I imagine to some degree you're on the right track with the increase in new riders being a contributor, but obviously more research is needed into the circumstances involving the crashes to seperate the various factors.



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Old 08-10-2005, 11:55 AM   #134
pudlepirate
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Default Re: Wondering who was going to bring that up...

health care is spiraling out of control because of iresponsible litigation, a huge segmant of the money we all shell out every day goes to insuarance to protect us and the producers of the products and services we use from said lawsuits.
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Old 08-10-2005, 12:01 PM   #135
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Default Re: Deaths up since Florida helmet law repealed

I thought we had established dead people are cheaper
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Old 08-10-2005, 12:02 PM   #136
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Default Re: Deaths up since Florida helmet law repealed

I dunno. I've always leaned toward the libertarian perspective, but having seen two accidents this summer--one which I saw happen, and another I came across moments afterward--I'm starting to lean toward mandatory hemets. Last Saturday, I'm riding down I-25, which is a busy piece of interstate that cuts right though Denver, on my Sprint ST. I'm in full riding gear, and I'm hotter than hell, but I don't mind, because I'm heading to the mountains where it will be cooler. Guy on a Harley blasts past me, one hand on the bars, the other in his lap, wearing shorts, sunglasses, and, presumably, some type of footwear. Wasn't even wearing a shirt. Experience tells me that guy's going to have a rude awakening one day, and frankly, I'd rather have the government make him wear a helmet than have to see another bleeding body on the side of the road. It's all well and good to talk about Darwinism and all that crap, but it's ugly business, and I'd rather give up some liberties than make more orphans and widows.
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Old 08-10-2005, 12:05 PM   #137
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Default Re: Deaths up since Florida helmet law repealed

"I've said before, you're not free..... there's a million and one laws proving that fact," That may be the most informed statment made on this tread today. The point is why make it a million and two? VWW
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Old 08-10-2005, 12:09 PM   #138
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Default Re: Deaths up since Florida helmet law repealed

To paraphase one of our founding fathers,Those who would trade liberty for security wind up having neither. VWW
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Old 08-10-2005, 12:11 PM   #139
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Default Re: Deaths up since Florida helmet law repealed

He,he,,,LOL If you would have died, your "loved ones" would have sued for wrongful death. And won a 1.5 mil award paid by insurance co. Cheap? Guess again.
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Old 08-10-2005, 12:13 PM   #140
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Default Re: Deaths up since Florida helmet law repealed

William Pitt ("The Younger") "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."
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