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Old 08-10-2005, 11:28 AM   #111
blitz
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Default Re: Deaths up since Florida helmet law repealed

Actually, if you want to really get to the bottom of this, you keep two statistics:



Helmeted deaths/1000 crashes



Unhelmeted deaths/1000 crashes.



Just because the death rate goes up after the helmet law is repealed doesn't mean the death rate goes up BECAUSE the helmet law is repealed.



We have no idea about causality here, or how strongly helmet use is correlated to the death rate. We can guess, but we don't know.



So, it looks like I disagree with sportbikebandit again. He's drawing conclusions from a limited statistical dataset.
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Old 08-10-2005, 11:31 AM   #112
Hutchinator
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Default Re: Wondering who was going to bring that up...

Get a Geico Quote Here and from my policy:

Medical Payments coverage pays medical, dental, hospital and funeral expenses for you, household relatives and guest passengers injured in a motor vehicle accident. This coverage also protects you and household relatives in other vehicles or if struck as pedestrians. The limit of liability for medical payments stated in the declarations as applying to "each person" is the limit we will pay for all costs incurred by or on behalf of each person who sustains bodily injury in one accident. This applies regardless of the number of persons insured or the number of autos or trailers to which this policy applies. In choosing an appropriate limit, you may want to consider your ability to meet your medical expenses and other financial obligations if you were injured in an automobile accident.



Honestly, I not too concerned about not getting the coverage, the AF is extremely lenient. I'd have to be doing something pretty damn stupid before it would get denied. I'm more often concerned about the quality of care. Since I work in the hospital, I'm well aware of the hospitalÂ’s environment and one gets to know the staff themselves. Not always inspiring.



Don't really feel like running it through a calculator, but off my head and interest-free long term mortagage should be in the ballpark of $1500 a month. I think I'll continue to wear my helmet, hold on to my coverage, and stay insured.
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Old 08-10-2005, 11:37 AM   #113
rstanden
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Default Re: Deaths up since Florida helmet law repealed

blitz is absolutely correct. There is no guarantee that repealing the helmet law had anything to do with the increased death rate. It might be a complete coincidence. Without additional data, people are just making assumptions.
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Old 08-10-2005, 11:38 AM   #114
Solace
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Default Re: Deaths up since Florida helmet law repealed

Who protects the majority from the foolishness of the minority? My statement wasn't ignorant, and it holds a lot of truth. Boning up on my civics won't do much when the facts remain. There are mechanisms that protect the minority, but last I checked generally the majority rules (well almost in the US and Canada). We do defend our minorities rights and protect them from tyranny through various means, and I'll be the first to agree that majority is certainly not always right, but is requiring you to wear a helmet a demonstration of governmental tyranny. That's absurd. Seat belts, damn the man and his seat belt police! There are any number of occasions where the majority rules and there are any number of occasions where they don't, but this by no means removes my right as a citizen to put forward what I think is best. Fact of the matter is, if I were a politician, and I felt (evidenced or otherwise) my constituents wanted a law passed and I agreed with their viewpoint, wouldn't I do it? People do it everyday....when they speak to their representatives.... Now the courts may strike it down, it may get voted down etc., but then again it may not, and that's why there are so many laws, but none the less the mechanisms exist that I as a citizen can at least attempt to make law. Presumably my error in presenting this was I boiled it down a little too much.



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Old 08-10-2005, 11:44 AM   #115
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Default Re: One

Like I said, I don't know which is more responsible for the rise in deaths. You certainly don't know, so please stop acting like you do. We had a severe spike in deaths in Illinois last year, and there was no change in the helmet law. What caused that? You are pretty smart, so tell me.
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Old 08-10-2005, 11:48 AM   #116
rstanden
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Default Re: Take two guys.

Increased speed does not affect death rate? What do you suppose deaths/1000 accidents at 45 mph vs. deaths/1000 accidents at 145 mph would look like? Same goes for larger bikes and less experienced riders. These factors affect both the number of accidents and the severity.
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Old 08-10-2005, 12:01 PM   #117
Hutchinator
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Default Re: OK guys time for a Statistics lesson

You need computers to design cup-holders? j/k, SBB



Having already stated that I'm not surprised that deaths went up with the removal of the helmet requirement, I think it safe to say I'm not arguing that is isn't a factor. What I'm agreeing with, and maintain was well presented above, is that it alone is the only reason for the increase. Inexperience can play a significant factor, in addition to the choices one makes when deciding what your ride is. I also partially agree with a statement that you made elsewhere in this topic that bikes are getting better, I don't think that makes them inherently safer. You could put better bikes under the rider, but a squid is still a squid, and a 30mph wheelie is just as dangerous as ever.



I've only taken a couple mandatory Stat classes; I don't consider myself an expert on the subject by any means. But one thing that has stuck with me, that was put nicely by a fellow student in one class, is this: One stat isn't enough to prove a trend, but itÂ’s awesome when you want to prove you're right.
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Old 08-10-2005, 12:08 PM   #118
ddlewis
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Default Re: Deaths up since Florida helmet law repealed

"the majority of the motorcycle riding population has shown they are too stupid to make an intelligent decision."



Reading all of the denial of the facts on this page makes me tend to agree with him. I am starting to think that motorcylist have eith lower IQs or just in flat denial...




people who take unnecessary risks are not necessarily "stupid". Think smokers, rodeo riders, sky divers, motorcyclists....



Wanting the government to outlaw certain bad-for-you things while expecting your favorite bad-for-you thing to remain protected is... well.. stupid..

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Old 08-10-2005, 12:09 PM   #119
gniewko
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Default Re: You need some coffee dude

No. They can affect the death rate as well.



Like I said, newbies on more powerful bikes can have more severe (more deadly) crashes than experienced bikers.



A higher proportion of cage-turns-left accidents will increase the death rate as well, because that's a more severe crash than for example a lowside on some gravel.



For weather, you could argue that in better weather people ride faster, so accidents are more severe.



These all increase the average accident severity, and thus increase the death rate (deaths per 1000 accidents).
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Old 08-10-2005, 12:10 PM   #120
rstanden
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Default Re: Deaths up since Florida helmet law repealed

Solace,



You are absolutely correct. Now let's go after all those smoking, drinking, Big Mac eating, members of society that stay up too late and watch the wrong sports on T.V. There is no limit to the good we can do as a majority.
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