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Old 03-19-2005, 11:59 AM   #31
tsrzad
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Default Re: Hydrogen Power VS Loud Pipes

I'm all for other ways to power ourselves, especially those that don't involve dinosaurs (either dead ones or our current administration).



Part of the joy of twisting throttles is that motorcycles are so visceral; they express their machine-ness with vibrations, dynamics in motion, blurred scenery, and noises. I ride an MZ Skorpion with a pipe and I love the vibes and the roar from the can. I'm not giving that up.



3. The environmentally sound thing needs to be exciting and relevant to the things we already love about being on two wheels to make it in the marketplace. It shouln't be a half-ass approximation based on sentimentality (think 125cc harley fat boy copy), but more of a critical reinterpretation.



Keep the bike loud and alive, and I'll happily burn H instead of gas.
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Old 03-19-2005, 11:08 PM   #32
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Default Re: Hydrogen Power VS Loud Pipes

I see a market for $300 carbon fiber baloons, for blurbaliing against the spokes; in various manly colors, of course.
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Old 03-20-2005, 12:26 AM   #33
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Default Re: Hydrogen Power VS Loud Pipes

Personally, I think the H-engine would be very nice on a touring bike. A set of Yosh pipes can get old, after a few-hundred miles of thumpity-roar. And listening to Aaron Copeland or Metalica on the headphones might be nice, while droning across the purgatory-nothingness of South Dakota..."Look! There's a silo in the distance. That makes three, in the last two-hundred miles." But as far as a sport-bike goes - a fuel cell motor? forget it! Where's the engine braking, where's the the corner-exit kick...and most important of all, where the hell's my dopamine?



It all sort of reads like the argument between old-wooden roller coasters and the new stainless steel super-rides; which one really kicks you in the guts? And it's no contest. Coming off a mountain of hemlock would probably just-about make Socrates wet his pants, and stainless steel would make Einstein yawn. If I gotta drink three cups of coffee to get me back home after riding the twisties, why bother?
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Old 03-20-2005, 07:51 AM   #34
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Default lurking and learning didn't last long

but I think MO can attract more subscribers now that the background noise is gone.

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Old 03-21-2005, 05:10 AM   #35
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Default Re: Off topic but scary none the less

I like how he says he was "banned" from MO. Maybe I missed something, but I thought he didn't re-subscribe. Either I'm wrong, or he's lying again.
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Old 03-21-2005, 05:27 AM   #36
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Default Re: Hydrogen Power VS Loud Pipes

"I'd like to think some people may see the wisdom of getting off petrol and onto hydro as a viable alternative."



How viable is hydrogen?



#1, how is hydrogen produced? What are the energy requirements? The electric-car fetishists seem to think electricity comes out of wall sockets. Is this the case for hydrogen? Do people think it magically seperates from seawater? How much energy is required to produce 30 miles worth of hydrogen vs 30 miles worth of gasoline?



#2, related to #1, what will the "refineries" be like? Can they be built without obstructionist opposition from the enviro-nuts and the NIMBYs? If it's not possible to build windmill farms in the most liberal town in the country, where will hydrogen plants be built?



#3, what are the odds of having a mini-Hindenburg disaster in an accident? Because the first time it happens, the lawyers will kill another industry.



Every time I hear about another magical alternative to gasoline, it turns out that the technology is either immature or inefficient. Then the next flavor-of-the-week comes along and people make the same magical claims. Look at kook's biodiesel fetish - if french-fry fat worked as well as gasoline, wouldn't EVERYBODY be converting their vehicles right now? Then you've got the whole neo-Puritan "everything we're doing now is evil" syndrome, in which case the same people who complain about gasoline engines now will find something evil about hydrogen in the future.



Not trying to bust your balls, I'm just skeptical from long experience.
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Old 03-21-2005, 05:30 AM   #37
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Default Re: Hydrogen Power VS Loud Pipes

"I keep seeing vehicle after vehicle powerd by fuel cell, new concepts released every few monthes and no talk of the generation problem."



Wait until it goes from a few hundred vehicles, to millions.
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Old 03-21-2005, 05:34 AM   #38
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Default Re: Hydrogen Power VS Loud Pipes

"Remember that an electric motor gets 100% of its torque and HP at zero rpm."



Allow me to display my ignorance -



Wouldn't the horsepower and torque at zero RPM be, well... zero?



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Old 03-21-2005, 06:11 AM   #39
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Default Re: Hydrogen Power VS Loud Pipes

I agree, my apartment in Florence was on a narrow street with Vepas coming and going all night long. Noisy little buggers. There were some battery powered scooters around and it was strange to see them scooting around without any noise.
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Old 03-21-2005, 07:21 AM   #40
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Default Re: Hydrogen Power VS Loud Pipes

EXACTLY.



Unfortunately, the areas of the world that need this most (think Calcutta, Hong Kong...) are the last places new, green tech will surface. Those cities are among the most densely populated in the world, and are still choked by 2-strokes.



There's got to be a way to take critical stock of what's actually great about twistgrips (like engine braking...great example) and try to remove the fossil fuels from the equation. How else can we achieve it? Speakers emanating engine noises won't do it.
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