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Old 10-14-2004, 11:25 AM   #51
mscuddy
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Default Re: Squids on open bikes

I hope you're right.



Funny, if you look at the stats, it's the over 40 crowd that's getting snuffed at a higher ratio than kids on sportsickles.



Same argument with assault weapons. Because of looks and performance (150+ HP fairing & low bars or 30+ rounds and a folding stock) the saftey nazis step in and regulate it. Might hurt somebody with that thing, son.



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Old 10-14-2004, 11:42 AM   #52
longride
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Default Re: Motorcycle Risk Study by Insurance Company

Try em both from 2500 rpm.
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Old 10-14-2004, 11:46 AM   #53
Abe_Froman
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Default Re: Motorcycle Risk Study by Insurance Company

I've always suspected that my (at least personally) low insurance rates were almost a fluke, given the nearly disposable nature of sportbikes these days----tossing one down the road, claiming it as a total loss, and then purchasing another brand-new bike seems like an almost annual or semi-annual event for some guys. I would say in the neighborhood of 1/3 of the riders that I know have totalled a bike with full coverage on it. They are squarely on the plus side of the equation in terms of premiums vs. payouts. This is not the way insurance companies make money. Even worse, bikes are being totalled out for having what would have once been relatively minor damage, but a gouge in the frame nowadays is enough to bring the parts & labor cost well above the limit.



Physically riding and controlling a big-power sportbike down the road is almost certainly somewhat more difficult than riding a standard or cruiser, at least marginally. However, it is the WAY in which they are ridden, coupled with the delusions of Hayden-esque (or worse, Stunterz Xtreem) riding skill or aspirations, that results in bikes getting thrown down like gauntlets at an ultimate fighting convention, only with more attendant injuries and deaths.



I've been just as guilty as anyone, as I was lucky to live through my first two years of riding, let alone lucky enough not to crash. Maybe I'm still guilty when I'm currently trying to learn how to control rear-tire slides and "backing it in" when braking for turns at our favorite local deserted (but public, and still somewhat dangerous) riding spot. Then again, I have yet to ride over my head enough to cause a crash, knock on wood.



Interestingly, I haven't personally known anyone that has been severely hurt or died in all these crashes, though I've certainly heard of those people through the grapevine. Three this summer. One hit a post and one had a truck turn out in front of him. They died. The other was on the track, in a freak pit-lane accident. Although the value of the insurance payouts from these three might end up being the equal of a few dozen in which nobody was hurt bad. But the point is, it seems that there are scores of young guys that buy bikes, wreck them, and treat the insurance company like a sportbike vending machine.



I don't know if it would really help the bottom line enough to matter, but some things that might help would be to:



1)create different types of policies for different types of riders----those that would be willing to keep a bike that is operational but has cosmetic damage, like a scratch on the frame, in return for lower premiums, something along those lines



2) agreeing to not claim a bike that was wrecked on the track, or perhaps reducing or altering the coverage or damage limits if it is wrecked on the track (applicable to trackdays, and yes, I've heard of many bikes wrecked at trackdays and subsequently claimed)



3) stipulating in the policy that helmets and gear be worn or it would revert to reduced or no coverage for personal injury, or giving a choice between policies where gear is mandatory or optional
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Old 10-14-2004, 12:53 PM   #54
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Default Re: Motorcycle Risk Study by Insurance Company

As sophisticated as their analysis might be, it is very difficult to account mathematically for the attitudinal differences between some sportbike riders (or rider in any class of bike) and others that make some prone to throw away one brand-new bike and layer of skin per year doing wheelies, and others to ride hard & fast for years on end without getting hurt or needing to make a claim.



I submit that my first two years of riding were (nearly, I did fall down at very low speed once) crash-free out of God's good grace, but since then, despite riding faster and faster over the years due to an increase in skill and racetrack experience, I still have not crashed (not to appear to be some sort of invincible super-rider, knock on wood).



It's just that some people have the good sense of where to go fast, how fast to go, and where not to, and how to mitigate the risk to an acceptable level. These are the people that can ride very fast on public roads for years on end without crashing. This usually comes with experience, but you can also deliniate between those who recognize their limited experience and therefore excersize a level of cautiousness commensurate with their experience and skill, and those who do simply do not. I've ridden with guys who
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Old 10-14-2004, 12:57 PM   #55
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Default Re: Motorcycle Risk Study by Insurance Company

Money – that is what it is about - alway's has been - and alway's will be.



Almost everyday – here in southern California. I am passed on the freeway - by an "idiot" on a sportbike - wearing nothing but a t-shirt – shorts – tennis shoe's – and a helmut. Weaving in – and out of traffic - at a 100+ miles per hour. I just shake my head as they barely miss that 50 ton truck – or 3 ton suv.



So what's the answer?



Chasing these "idiot's" down – and t-boning them – putting a 240 metzeler "tattoo" across their body? Hardly – besides 3 meals of tasteless food – and a cot does not

sound appealing.



Maybe – a "magical" computer screen? That you can reach through – and grab an "idiot" up - give them a couple "knowledge knot's" upside their head – and then send back through? No! Just a fantasy - violence never work's. Besides you would just contribute to more hospital cost's.



The bottom line is - there is alway's another "idiot" - to take the place of the ones' that are injured or die.



"Sissy la la" whining is a waste of time.



Enjoy the "bikes" right now – and realize that their day's are numbered.



If you cannot see that. Then you probably also see that - "big fat idiot" Michael Moore - the "spin doctor" - as the "after" pictiure – instead of - the "before" picture - in a "Joe Weider" bodybuilding advertisement. lol
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Old 10-14-2004, 01:05 PM   #56
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Default Re: Motorcycle Risk Study by Insurance Company

Christian has a point: I work in the insurance industry....Do NOT trust us. The aim is to write the contracts as restrictively as the market will tolerate - then adjust agressively.



On the other hand, an AMAZING number of claiments are out to shaft us and are very sophisticated about it.



Insurance is a tough and suprisingly low margin business.



Be careful out there - and I'm not talking about riding safety.
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Old 10-14-2004, 01:19 PM   #57
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Default Re: Motorcycle Risk Study by Insurance Company

Somebody smart once said, "It's more fun to ride a slow bike fast, than a fast bike slow..."
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Old 10-14-2004, 01:39 PM   #58
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Default Re: Motorcycle Risk Study by Insurance Company

The bike is only as safe as its rider. They handle, brake, and accelerate better than anything else on the street. For a rider that knows how to work the controls, a sportbike could justifiably be considered the safest, but since most don't, they aren't.

I have a feeling they could have left everything about the bike out of the study and came to the same conclusions based on the rider demographics alone.
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Old 10-14-2004, 02:22 PM   #59
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Default Re: Motorcycle Risk Study by Insurance Company

These insurance companies bring some of this on themselves: I lowsided my CBR954RR last month. I was in the hills at 45mph riding with my Dad on his Hardly. I rounded a blind corner and hit a large patch of new loose asphalt that covered my entire lane. I slowed alot but as soon as the front hit that crap I low sided. The bike slid on the left side and hit the curb like mound of asphalt and flipped over to the other side launching me down a very steep hill into trees, where I tumbled ass over tea kettle all the way down the damn hill. The bike slid on the right for 5 feet or so and hit a little dirt berm on the edge of the hill and stopped (thank God!). I went down because the road crew did not mark the hazard...no loose gravel sign or construction sign. Had my Dad been first, he would have gone down. He got stopped sooner because he saw me hard on the brakes, but could not see why I was stopping. He still nearly went down as he navigated the slippery asphalt with that skinny 21 inch front wheel. I have ridden dirt bikes and street bikes for 23 years including racing MX...sometimes there is just nothing you can do except hope for a soft landing.



I was not hurt (likely because I was wearing proper gear) so I climb back up this huge damn hill and pick up my bike. Scratches, but runs fine and tracks strait on the road. I rode for another 150 miles with out a problem. All cosmetic damage.



I take it to the local stealer the next day and the tell me $2500 or so to fix it, depending on how many little scratches I can live with. I was actually gonna pay myself, but for $2500 I thought I would have the insurance do it. The insurance requires everything to be fixed so the bike is like new. I mean there is this absolutely miniscule scratch on the tank that would easily buff out and they wanted to replace the tank. Not a scratch on the frame. With all the required stuff for the insurance the total cast came to $5800. Well the bike was an 02 so they figure it is only worth $7900 and it will be a total loss. I BEGGED them not to total it but they persisted, saying I could buy it back as a salvage, but then they would not insure it. They said cheaper for them to total it for the following reason:

Fix it $5800 cost to them.

Total it $7900 to me, but sell for salvage for $3000 leaving net cost to them at $4900.



They would not compromise, but did not hold me at fault for the accident so my rates did not go up (still about 600 a year). I could have gotten it fixed for cheaper by not fixing some of the things they were totally unwilling to talk about; such as not replace the tank ($863) and not replace the exhaust (minor scratches, cost $1294). I would have been happy to replace a lot of stuff with aftermarket stuff but they wouldn't do that either, saying it was a safety issue. It just seems silly to total a perfectly functioning bike when it could be fixed for $2500.



I bought a SV1000S last week on them.
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Old 10-14-2004, 03:14 PM   #60
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Default Re: Motorcycle Risk Study by Insurance Company

I rode a 600 last week, which is probably more recently than you've have ridden one, and I don't even own a 600. I ride more street miles in a week (500) than a poser like you rides in a month. Call me when you've ridden a cruiser farther than around the block and have ridden a streetbike outside your home county and back and we'll discuss motorcycles. Until then go jerk off in the corner to your latest Cycle World and leave the real, informed discussion of motorcycles to the mature adults.



It'd also be pretty damn hard for me to last ride a 600 since when Reagan was president since I only rode on the dirt back then.
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