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SeanAlexander 08-26-2004 09:57 AM

Re: Stunt motorcyclists blamed in serious accident
Thank you for the outstanding photos LTC Plassmann.

SeanAlexander 08-26-2004 10:02 AM

Re: He was.
You did fine young man and I wasn't surprised. Then again, I've heard that tone in your voice before and know when you're BSing :-P

SeanAlexander 08-26-2004 10:27 AM

Re: Stunt motorcyclists blamed in serious accident
I get your point, but assuming a typical 10mph headwind, most 172s are actually lifting off at ground speeds in the 65MPH range. -Sean

christian_gates 08-26-2004 10:28 AM

Re: Agreed (mostly). Ebass, wake up bro, shool's in session
I think that we're in pretty good agreement on this issue, SBP. There's a huge trend in accident reporting, though, that focuses on issues that are contributing factors rather than root causes, and I kind of over-react.

I wanted to raise some of the other factors that are completely ignored, precisely because they don't fit well into a soundbite, and are generally critical of the road behavior of the majority of drivers. The CNS responses that you discuss HAVE TO BE SUPRESSED to operate a vehicle safely, motorcycles more than cars, but nevertheless - and the form of that supression is good training and practice.

The focus on passive safety and traffic law enforcement completely ignores the fact that things that can't be fixed passively or enforced away will happen to you. Period. And you need the right set of ideas in your head to make a good decision.

The idiocy of a pack of morons on bikes, fleeing an accident, is of course reprehensible by any reasonable standard. The exclusive fixation of blame, though, really burns me up.


pdad13 08-26-2004 10:54 AM

Re: Stunt motorcyclists blamed in serious accident
Exactly, EB. I'm reading this thing thinking it was either the worst piece of crap excuse for journalism, or it was a clumsy intentional distortion. The dots don't connect. It talks about stunting but neglects to mention how that activity contributed to the accident. Then it skims right over the fact that SUV driver #1 did about the stupidest thing possible. Then it quotes some insurance industry hack who never touches on 1.) SUV driver #1 showed poor vehicle management, and 2.) People in SUV #2 were not wearing seatbelts. I thought that the insurance industry is also supposed to be concerned about those things, too.

While driving, I've had more than one squid fly around and in front of me. I just let em' go. I slow down a bit if they've squeezed into a tight spot. I've never run another car off of the road.

That being said, next time you see a squid, let them know what they're doing is stupid and wrong. I doubt most of 'em will listen, but maybe just one might get the message if enough of us let them know that being squidly is not cool.

sportbike_pilot 08-26-2004 11:21 AM

Re: Stunt motorcyclists blamed in serious accident
Not with you, me or Ebass onboard.

pdad13 08-26-2004 11:31 AM

Re: Agreed (mostly). Ebass, wake up bro, shool's in session
You are a wise and thoughtful man, SBP, but what I think you are neglecting is the fact that we are conditioned to control primitive impulses in almost everything we do. Operating a vehicle in traffic demands it. It's the difference between locking up the brakes in a panic stop situation and making a safe, controlled stop. (Oh, and most of us don't go around humping the legs of every attractive woman we see, either. Well, maybe Buz.) Another analogy from football would be a quarterback standing in the pocket waiting for receivers to break open. Young, inexperienced QBs will have a tendency to run and squirm known as "happy feet." Eventually, that response is conditioned out of them to a large degree. I would argue that one of the most important abilities of a competent driver or rider is the ability to suppress this "fight or flight" reaction in most situations.

There have been more than a few times that IÂ’ve been startled by things that happen on the road. IÂ’ve never had a situation that caused me to bound into another lane and run a another vehicle off of the road. And IÂ’m certainly not the most skilled driver or rider out there.

You do raise another important point: We donÂ’t have all of the facts. True, much of this is supposition and should be taken as such. Unfortunately the author of the article left us with too many holes to fill and much food for speculation.

sportbike_pilot 08-26-2004 12:15 PM

Re: Agreed (mostly). Ebass, wake up bro, school's in session
I agree that a highly skllled (I would argue genetically gifted) inidividual such as an athlete can train themselves to override some of their primitive responses but that is not all that common. The primitive response mechanisms of the brain enable us to respond to emergencies and survive while freeing up enormous areas of the brain for things that require a lot of storage like language. Otherwise we'd have to have a larger cranial cavity to house a bigger brain. So this is evolution's attempt to do what Microsoft cannot which is to develop software that fits into a compact segment of memory. But it comes with a few hitches.

We are very good at things like pattern recognition that can be largely assembled by more primiitive areas of the brain so often times patterns that don't conform to the expected background either trigger the primitive response network or are ignored by the higher centers of the brain -- that is why so many people get run over by trains every year at well-marked intersections (train doesn't look like a car which would fit the expected pattern) and yes, why so many cagers actually don't see us on bikes.



Abe_Froman 08-26-2004 12:22 PM

Re: Stunt motorcyclists blamed in serious accident
This was my general feeling. There are stupid, inept, and geriatric people that do stupid things on the road every day, it is not limited to stunting sportbike riders.

I wonder how inept the 16 year old at the wheel of the Explorer was. Or the suburban driver for that matter. Obviously he and his passengers were all too busy singing along to their Skynyrd CD to bother fastening their seatbelts.

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