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Old 10-16-2003, 11:14 AM   #21
mscuddy
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Default Re: Keep it...

Put some good tyres on that old Yamaha, and flog the snot out of it. Maybe some stiffer fork springs too.



Sounds like you've got some time on the bike.



Since you're running mid-pack in your class, maybe with a little more riding, you can be running with the fast chaps. And if you're going fast enough to warrant steel brake lines, well that's a good thing. Turning your brake rotors blue is not, however.



I've found, you get the most experience from racing inferior machinery, and it helps with the ego too, especially after taking a good thrashing; "yeah, well look at the old POS I'm riding."



When you do finally trade up to a better machine, you'll be a better rider, and more able to appreciate the finer nuances of your new bike.
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Old 10-16-2003, 11:50 AM   #22
sjriott
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Default Re: Upgrade or buy new?

One issue is the fact that the bike you bought 10 years ago was a slow, overweight dog. (469 lbs. dry with 1/4 mile times right at 11 sec.) It's not getting any better with age. If you had bought a FZR1000, CBR900RR or ZX9, it would be a different story. The 600's of that time period performed nearly as well as your bike.



A new 600 will make you faster on the track for a bunch of reasons. 100 lbs. less weight for one thing will help immensly with your cornering ability. 20% less rotating mass will allow the bike to stay layed over better through the corners as well. Plus, the newer bikes have better brakes and suspension. Not to mention that a new 600 will smoke your bike hardcore on every straight.



Notice all these guys are saying smaller, lighter bikes are turning the fastest lap times. Your bike weighs too much to hang with a current 600 given everything else is equal. More power will only be useable once you've mastered cornering.



Upgrading the suspension, brakes, etc. will cost as much as the bike is worth. Dump it and put that cash towards something newer.
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Old 10-16-2003, 01:12 PM   #23
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Default Here's teh proof...

Sears point is NOT that tight a track, with a long, fast, back-straight. And the 250 production race winners are really fast. These are Ninja 250s with fairly light mods.



These are results from AFM racing (amatures), best lap in various categories. This is the best lap recorded for the winner in various production races:





250 Production (EX250): 1:57:967



500 Twin (89 Honda): 1:51:329



600 Production (R6): 1:42:079



750 Production (ZX-7R): 1:45:540



Open Production (R1): 1:45:404



So going from an EX250 to a R6 drops the lap time by 15 seconds on a track with a fast back straight. The winner on the R6 was three seconds FASTER than the winner on an R1



Sears Point full track map:

http://www.internetsoccer.com/images/GeneralMap.lg.gif



Sears Point AMA configuration:

http://www.internetsoccer.com/images/2003AMAMap.lg.jpg



17th place in Open Production was a Honda 939, with a best-lap of 1:58:528, so SLOWER than the winner of the 250 race.



Fastest lap for the lowest in the 750 and 600 productions were on the order of 2:10!
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Old 10-16-2003, 01:34 PM   #24
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Default Re: Upgrade or buy new?

I do not know where you come up with this. I went to the california Superbike school and the penquin school. I rented a ex500 at the penquin school and a zx6r at the keith code school and I was passing r1 yamahas and 929 honda's. You can laugh at me all you want to because these guys were either slow or the bike was just too much for them. I asked them after our track session why I was passing them because they said they had done these schools before. I have no idea, they were experienced street riders and said they were fast but I just did not see this. I have been riding for 15 years on the street and currently have a 954rr. You must be a really skilled rider but also remember this experience cannot be taught, it can only be done by doing it and by learning it over time.
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Old 10-16-2003, 01:39 PM   #25
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Default Re: Upgrade or buy new?

Upgrade to a used newer bike, then work on upgrading it. I am thinking a 99ish GSXR 750...
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Old 10-16-2003, 02:41 PM   #26
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Default Re: Upgrade or buy new?

At the Barber track 2 weeks ago my sv650 was held up by much faster bikes in the corners and was blown away by the same riders in the strights. I think I had more skill and had fun. I did wish for a bit of nitrous to not have to keep passing the same guys all day in the corners. I can say this though. I think I learned more about riding those 2 days than they did. It takes little skill to go fast in a stright line.
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Old 10-16-2003, 03:13 PM   #27
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Default Re: Upgrade or buy new?

You need to test ride other bikes to find out what suits you. And get a real feel for how different they are to your current bike. I don't believe you can bridge 10 years of bike evolution simply thru upgrading suspension and brakes.



Over the last 10 years, bikes have definitely become faster, and handling has definitely been improved. You will almost certainly find a bike that will help reduce your lap times.



However I'm not sure bikes have necessarily become more comfortable. In fact the race replicas have probably gone the other way.



How much of a track weapon do you really want when you only do 2 track days a year ?
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Old 10-16-2003, 03:28 PM   #28
exyzfst
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Default Re: Upgrade or buy new?

I would suggest a slightly different approach to your situaion.

I might think about trading for a bike that is newer for the added benefits of tecnology, but is more suited and feels more comfortable on street riding. You spend alot more time on the street than on the track. That way you can take longer trips to and thru the twisties, and gain saddle time which would no doublt improve your skill level. And when its track day for that time or two a year, you will have some benefit of newer technology and may be able to turn some better times.



Just trying to give a different perspective.
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Old 10-17-2003, 04:48 AM   #29
maladg
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Default Re: Upgrade or buy new?

If I were in your shoes (thank goodness I'm not) I'd priortize as follows: 1. Track School. 2. Suspension/tires upgrade. 3. Newer used bike.

The single part that most needs upgrading and practice is the part that is between your ears.
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Old 10-17-2003, 05:28 AM   #30
BBD_Racing
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Default Re: Upgrade or buy new?

No amount of upgrades will ameliorate the old bike's long wheelbase, massive weight, etc. New machines are as good as factory tuned machines of ten years ago.



Then there is the "new" feeling that comes from every bearing, joint, switch, etc being new. A buddy just bought a couple year old ZX6R and riding it reminded me of how old and tattered my Hawk is. Since we are talking track days and not races, think about whether a smooth, flickable new bike would be more fun. Probably yes.



Get the new bike. Maybe consider a Duc 748. If not, then think Kawi 636. Nice torque either way. Speaking of which, 2 year old RSV1000's are getting easy to find. ZX9R's are cheap.





BTW: The F4 (and I presume the F4i) had a HUGE midrange hole. The Kawi does not.



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