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Old 10-16-2003, 07:34 AM   #11
pattonme
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Default Re: Upgrade or buy new?

Oh ha ha! Tell that to the guy on a Duc998 that was holding *ME* up at VIR North course and I'm on a GS500e which makes 42HP which is even 10HP less than an EX! You haven't seen what a white-tag racer can do on a 70HP single to the likes of 100HP supersports despite the fact that his competition is not exactly inexperienced in the racing circuit either.



The machine is just the tool of the rider. And I'm not at all fast nor experienced. Would I lap faster if I was on the Duc instead of the GS? Yeah, I'm sure I would. On the GS I get smoked by RS125's like nobody's business and arguably we have similar engine outputs.



"It's the RIDER, stupid" to steal a phrase...Your belief that an R1 mounted rider who isn't a rank neophyte will go faster than an EX/SV just shows how much you DON'T know.



As to the "licensed racer" being a hazard, depends on a few things. Yeah his top speed is 110+ compared to 160+ for a supersport. So "hazard" he might be on the front straight. But did you bother to compare lap or split times? I'll bet the EX rider could make some choice comments about the R1's parked in the corners he kept having to dodge and check up for.
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Old 10-16-2003, 08:02 AM   #12
SpongeBOB
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Default Re: Upgrade or buy new?

It doesn't really matter what you ride, it's HOW you ride it.



I had an old Hawk GT and took it for my first track day. Got hooked, thought HawkGT was too slow & old. Sold it and bought a new faster bigger bike, but it was a wrong choice. Sure it went faster on the straights but there was no improvement in my cornering speed.



Any squid & any new bike can go fast on the straights. What matters is; get the right line, set the bike right, brake but carry your speed through the turn, exit turn with precise acceleration.



anyway, ride whatever bike you want & be happy.
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Old 10-16-2003, 08:27 AM   #13
ewok1
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Default Re: Upgrade or buy new?

i struggle with this too. it always takes me a while to get used to a new bike. i was buying the latest and greatest always believing what i read. i would be transformed. but i wasn't.

i have adopted this rule to save my idiotic self. i wait at least one generation of changes. for example i have an 01 zx7r. i would love to own the new zx10. but i am going to wait until the 10 gets updated and think about that one. based on this i think you should ride a new bike.
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Old 10-16-2003, 08:43 AM   #14
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Default Re: Upgrade or buy new?

Better lap times are rarely a function of the motorcycle at less than race winning pace. Going faster down the straights with the same corner speed is no real improvement, which is why the Willow Springs track record was held by a 125 for a long time. Learning to turn better is a function of tires and suspension and skill, and nobody needs a new gixxer 1000 for that.
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Old 10-16-2003, 08:44 AM   #15
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Default Re: Upgrade or buy new?

remember track days aren't races (aka, nobody wins a practice), they are meant to have a blast and improve your skills in a safer environment - I doubt a new bike would help there, and do you really want to throw your newer expensive GSX-RR-R1-ZR down the track in a mishap. Upgrade tires, brakes and suspension and work on YOUR skills on track days with that bike. Get a more comfortable bike for the streets and use that for that purpose - you'll be ahead on both counts. I find the more track days I do the less I need to push beyond safe limits on the street.



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Old 10-16-2003, 09:17 AM   #16
mwesterl
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Default Re: Upgrade or buy new?

Embarassingly enough, my R1 and I been dusted twice now, by RS125's at Loudon NH.



I'd consider myself a middle of the road, middle group rider. Granted, these guys both race... but still. I got waxed. Coulnd't touch them in the corners.



I can't even count the times I've been passed up there by EX's and SV's. Lots.
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Old 10-16-2003, 09:41 AM   #17
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Forget the Gixxer for a moment, because that's an extreme example. Essentially, you're saying that tleighbell won't be able to carry faster cornering speeds on a new 600 than on his 10 year old 750. That is just flat ridiculous.



Sure, there's some learning curve involved in getting comfortable with a new bike, but any moderately skilled rider will notice the subtraction of 50 lbs. and additional 5-10 hp (totally guessing about the YZF data here) and improve accordingly. It's not just that the bike is inherently superior, but that a better bike challenges the rider to grow into its capabilities rather than hold the rider back with unsettling weight and wallowing suspension.



It simply doesn't make sense for someone to pay $1,500 on their suspension when their bike is still saddled by uncompetitive weight and power limitations. No offense, but a decade old Japanese sportbike is a sow's ear, and suspension upgrades won't turn it into a silk purse.
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Old 10-16-2003, 10:05 AM   #18
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Default Re: Upgrade or buy new?

true.
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Old 10-16-2003, 11:57 AM   #19
Tigercub
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Default Re: Upgrade or buy new?

Keith Code is probably seeing a relative increase in new track riders. I'll bet the new rider population has increased a lot in the last ten years. Also, it probably depends on the track. For years I could keep my old Triumph TR6 up with the fastest riders on the latest machines in corners well into the late '70's. But once the road straightened out I watched Japanese tailight disappear into horizon.
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Old 10-16-2003, 12:10 PM   #20
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Default Re: Upgrade or buy new?

You're asking what should you do, not what other riders can do compared to you on similar machines. In that case you will find that the more modern 600 you can afford the faster you will go. You may still get passed by an EX500 or pass a GSXR 1000, but if you could race yourself, you would pass yourself on the upgraded YZF, with the 2000 or later 600. Instead, you might ask yourself how much money should I spend to go around a corner a little faster? In my case it was $8200.
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