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Old 10-13-2003, 12:39 PM   #161
captainwhoopass
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Default Re: It's for your own good!

Unfortunately, they still have a few steps to go. Now if they can just do the same thing for old drivers, they'd be actually making progress.
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Old 10-13-2003, 12:42 PM   #162
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Default Re: abe ... i wonder how you'd feel ....

You really think the right to carry a firearm is constitutionally guaranteed? Think again.
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Old 10-13-2003, 12:48 PM   #163
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Default Re: abe ... i wonder how you'd feel ....

No, no, no, you're missing the point. We will always need some basic laws to govern what people can and can't do. All I'm saying here is that this isn't one of those laws. The sad fact is that 99.9% of the kids that wind up with these sportbikes do so BECAUSE THE PARENT BOUGHT THEM! Do you really think an 18-year-old can afford a new R1, cash or financing? Or can afford to insure it? There's no way that's the normal case. If the parents would have a little common sense and self-control, it would go a long way towards curing this problem. It would also provide a good role model for their kids to follow.
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Old 10-13-2003, 03:36 PM   #164
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Default Re: abe ... i wonder how you'd feel ....

El' Capitan, I see your point but I specifically said to many parents cannot be relied on for good judgment. Also, it is not just 18 year olds we're talking about here or, for that matter, only sport bikes. A similar forum on MO discussed the Wall Streeters buying 700lb HD's at 40+ and it being their first bike. I don't know how anyone can argue with requiring effective training and more stringent skill tests before being able to put a certain number of cc's under you.
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Old 10-14-2003, 03:49 AM   #165
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Default Re: abe ... i wonder how you'd feel ....

It is guaranteed if you are using the normal english language when reading the second amendment. However in today's world of penumbras and doublespeak and word parsing the constitution is rapidly becoming just so much toilet paper.
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Old 10-14-2003, 05:48 AM   #166
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Default Re: It's for your own good!

I haven't really seen much evidence that our system of licensing in the States really has much effect in general. People drive with suspended or revoked licenses as a normal activity. Octogenarians ( I saw a couple this weekend) attempt to pilot 50 foot long Winnebagos and re-furbished Greyhound buses down the road causing death and ruin. It's virtually impossible to take a license from anybody until they are a serious danger and even then many of these people drive anyhow. No insurance. Why not? They can't go to jail for it. Only the people who are basically honest are affected by these restrictions.



A handful of idiots whacking themselves up on Hogs and Squidbikes is not much of a concern in the scheme of things. A modern 400cc bike is more than sufficient to get up to 90+ in a few seconds. I suspect that the idiots who wad themselves up on 600s would probably do it on 400s as well.



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Old 10-14-2003, 05:55 AM   #167
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Default Re: It's for your own good!

I think you are basically correct. But I think that if we implement such a scheme on bikers we should also have size and horsepower restrictions on new car drivers too. And more severe restrictions on licensing for these Winnebehemoths we see doddering along, 25 mph, swerving around the Rockies, octogenarians who are half blind and completely deaf at the wheel.
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Old 10-14-2003, 06:13 AM   #168
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Default Re: It's for your own good!

There is much truth in what you say. But remember that there is always some conflict between the concepts of safety and freedom. I'm 55 years old and have watched the slow erosion of freedom. With all the laws and restrcitions and massive increases in govt power of the last few decades we have also seen that we are less safe than before. Such evidence would indicate that more govt, after a certain point, results in less safety not more.



The least free people in the world in totalitarian states live in far greater danger of being murdered than the more free states.



So there is a balance here. How much govt intrusion actually results in more safety? The Drug War has virtually destroyed the 4th Amendment. Are we any safer? Most assuredly not. Even with nearly unlimited power for search and seizure police departments still feel the need to fake evidence. (REf LAPD Rampart Division Scandal for example).



I'm not against graduated licensing. I just think that any benefits from it are highly overrated. People kill themselves off on mopeds and scooters in fair quantity too.



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Old 10-14-2003, 06:20 AM   #169
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Default Re: It's for your own good!

Well okay. We should also apply this rule to people who stupidly do things like smoke, eat fast food, ski, drive cars, get out of bed, step into the shower, play football... heck we could start a heck of a list.



The only problem with the open-ended argument about community health care burden is that your argument gives society the power to regulate every single aspect of your life from cradle to grave. Everything you do may have an element of risk that could cause society to pay your health care costs. This even places your personal diet under the scrutiny of your neighbors.



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Old 10-14-2003, 05:14 PM   #170
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Default Re: Facts!

You are precisely right, Gabe. That eloquent discourse should have been part of my rant (you thieving bastard-oh wait, you came up with it...). Thanks for adding some thought to my spew.
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