Zero vs. Brammo

[The Spaceman]

You probably remember the hype from Brammo 18+ months ago about their Impulse. 100 mph / 100 mile range, in a very sporty package. They were taking "Pre-Orders." Since then, there's been a few emails from Brammo, but no bike.

Zero, OTOH, has been steadily improving their bikes and adding new models. 2012 looks like a really good year for them. Here's a quote from a MCN article on Zero:

“For instance, they aren’t fast. They aren’t long-distance capable. They aren’t cheap.”
That’s what I wrote just seven months ago about Zero motorcycle’s 2011 product line. That’s because the battery-electric motorcycles had promise and were much improved over prior iterations, but still lacked the range, performance and value of even the smallest gas-powered motorcycle. Your comments after the story showed that MD readers found the bikes laughably slow, clumsily styled and overpriced. So the press release we got from the Milan motorcycle show was pretty stunning. I’m hard-pressed to come up with another company that has responded to criticism and improved an entire lineup so quickly. For 2012, Zero’s motorcycles offer vastly improved range, speed, styling and battery life. Of course, these improvements have probably been in the pipeline for a year or more, but still; seven months? Say what you will about e-bikes, but for gasoline-powered motorcycles to make these kinds of advances in a little more than half a year would be considered nothing short of miraculous, and speaks to the potential of e-vehicles.


Zero 2012: More Power, Range and Sleeker Styling « MotorcycleDaily.com – Motorcycle News, Editorials, Product Reviews and Bike Reviews

[Buzglyd]

Kind of an apples and oranges comparison Kmo.

Gasoline bikes have been around for more than 100 years. Of course the pace of refinement is going to be slower.

I'd take that Yamaha in the other thread over any of these any day.

[The Spaceman]

Originally Posted by Buzglyd

Kind of an apples and oranges comparison Kmo.

Gasoline bikes have been around for more than 100 years. Of course the pace of refinement is going to be slower.

I'd take that Yamaha in the other thread over any of these any day.

The quote isn't mine, although I agree with it. If you look at how little the basic capabilities of gas bikes changed in the past 100 years, versus E-Bikes, the pace of change of E-Vehicles will far exceed that of gas; MoFo theories on the chemical limitations of batteries be damned. Today's bike has only incrementally better power, range, and fuel mileage as one from 30 years ago.

As for the Yamaha, well, it does seem to suit your "SoCal" lifestyle. Breezy, fun, devil-may-care, with the wind in your hair and a smile on your face.

[Buzglyd]

Originally Posted by The Spaceman

The quote isn't mine, although I agree with it. If you look at how little the basic capabilities of gas bikes changed in the past 100 years, versus E-Bikes, the pace of change of E-Vehicles will far exceed that of gas; MoFo theories on the chemical limitations of batteries be damned. Today's bike has only incrementally better power, range, and fuel mileage as one from 30 years ago.

As for the Yamaha, well, it does seem to suit your "SoCal" lifestyle. Breezy, fun, devil-may-care, with the wind in your hair and a smile on your face.

I'm not certain about that power.

You're average liter bike these days is making 160hp or more at the rear wheel.

That's probably more than double what a 30 year old liter bike made.

[The Spaceman]

Originally Posted by Buzglyd

I'm not certain about that power.

You're average liter bike these days is making 160hp or more at the rear wheel.

That's probably more than double what a 30 year old liter bike made.

I think we're splitting hairs here, but there's only a very few bikes that put out 160 HP. Most 1000's are more in the 90 - 110hp range, which is what they were getting out of the 2-stroke 500's and 750's back in the 80's.

[Buzglyd]

Originally Posted by The Spaceman

I think we're splitting hairs here, but there's only a very few bikes that put out 160 HP. Most 1000's are more in the 90 - 110hp range, which is what they were getting out of the 2-stroke 500's and 750's back in the 80's.

We're not splitting hairs. You're moving goalposts.

2 strokes don't count. Your eco wackos made em illegal.

Plus, those 100 hp 2 strokes were pretty damn scary back then compared to a current sport bike.

Hell, a 40hp 2 stroke was pretty damn scary back then.

[schizuki]

Originally Posted by The Spaceman

Say what you will about e-bikes, but for gasoline-powered motorcycles to make these kinds of advances in a little more than half a year would be considered nothing short of miraculous, and speaks to the potential of e-vehicles.

"Potential".

It's always "potential" with e-vehicles.

But just wait 3 to 5 years!

BTW, compare the range of electric cars 100 years ago with today's. Then imagine if gasoline-powered cars made these kinds of "advances" over 100 years.

CORRECTION: It just occurred to me that a 100 year old car might get comparable mileage to today's. But that just leads back to the superiority of gasoline engines - they take only a few minutes to "recharge", giving them effectively infinite range. Which is probably why the gas-vs-electric war ended back then.

[Buzglyd]

Originally Posted by schizuki

"Potential".

It's always "potential" with e-vehicles.

But just wait 3 to 5 years!

BTW, compare the range of electric cars 100 years ago with today's. Then imagine if gasoline-powered cars made these kinds of "advances" over 100 years.

CORRECTION: It just occurred to me that a 100 year old car might get comparable mileage to today's. But that just leads back to the superiority of gasoline engines - they take only a few minutes to "recharge", giving them effectively infinite range. Which is probably why the gas-vs-electric war ended back then.

The only thing "green" back then were the road apples popping out of a horse's hind end.

[The Spaceman]

Originally Posted by Buzglyd

We're not splitting hairs. You're moving goalposts.

2 strokes don't count. Your eco wackos made em illegal.

Plus, those 100 hp 2 strokes were pretty damn scary back then compared to a current sport bike.

Hell, a 40hp 2 stroke was pretty damn scary back then.

How can two-strokes not count in this context? They're gas engines, and my point is that gas engined bikes haven't come close to the increases in capability that electric bikes have. Furthermore, nobody wanted to ride the high-power 2-strokes, regardless of the environmental regs. And further-furthermore, 2-strokes are still in use from a number of manufacturers, and will continue to exist.

[MOKE1K]

Originally Posted by The Spaceman

I think we're splitting hairs here, but there's only a very few bikes that put out 160 HP. Most 1000's are more in the 90 - 110hp range, which is what they were getting out of the 2-stroke 500's and 750's back in the 80's.

Where have you been hiding? The liter bikes have been making over 100hp since the introduction of the 1998 R1 and even before that? Just saying...